Calm down. Brian raised a perfectly well-informed point that it does not take 30 minutes to walk to the pool. However, I would disagree that it take 10 minutes from Dacres Road. I would probably guess 20 minute with a class of children.

I have had swimming lessons with my primary school at Forest Hill, and Forest Hill Boys used both FH pools and Crystal Palace. It does take about 10 minutes to get from Eliot Bank school to FH Pools when there is a class of 25-30 young children. From Dacres Road it takes slightly longer but I believe that in my time classes that went swimming there did walk, in fact I am sure I can remember doing this on a couple of occasions (possibly if Crystal Palace was shut for some reason).

I think it is unlikely that most local schools would need to use coaches to get to Forest Hill but if they have to park a coach it is not the worst thing in the world. I went round to the library yesterday and Holy Trinity School has yellow zigzags which I believe are used by school buses (currently being dug up), so this is a reasonable place to park the coaches from schools if required.

I JUST WANT A SWIM.

Dear neighbours,
The longer we object to the proposals in front of us the more we are jeopadising having somewhere to swim at all.

I can?t wait for the new pool to be built. It's been too long since it was closed. I would prefer 2 pools as I did my swim clases in the teaching pool, but one pool is better than none. The development seems excessive, but is better option than having a dilapidating buildings not being used.

Regarding the extra parking demand from the new residents: I know of developments in London which have in their leases that the tenants are not allowed to own a car. With FH station is so close, surely this would not be an unreasonable demand.

I really enjoy brian's posts.

Bizarrely, the potential new residents' parking requirements are being catered for in the (restricted council) options, with an underground carpark.
The proposed service road behind the library doubles as the carpark access rd.

So it is acknowledged that people like to drive and need somewhere to park. But this logic does not extend to providing parking for those wanting to use this new centre.

Look at the size of The Bridge carpark - the area is as large as the building itself. And it is well used. These days people generally do not have the time to walk for 30mins to a leisure centre and back for just 30mins activity.

So IMO this is the wrong place for such a centre. It will be chronically underused once the novelty has worn off. The only reason to have a swimming pool here is a historical one.

I only agree occasionally with Brian's posts but enjoy them always

we are very fortunate, in FH, that we have much of what we need with a 10min walking distance. We are lucky to be able to live without the car that's what makes it such a great place to live.

For the pools parking for the disabled is essential and that is all they have included, coach parking is also highly important, the pools should be availbe to the further afield than FH in order to be sustainable.

Forest Hill Pools does have a car park, but it was not really used. When the councils Direct Team tarred over the garden to make it into parking the reason given was that, the lack of parking was discouraging custom.
But the empty car park proved that it was the people who lived in the area who used the pools - and they walked there.

There are already two large car parks in Forest Hill for people who live further away. It has long been accepted that if you pander to demands for cars you just get more cars.

The new design intentionally links the station and two large car parks to the pools for visiters from further afield. Also the models in the library show a pull in for cars & coaches and a possible bus stop. This is why the social space retained in option 1 is so important, somewhere for buggies and somewhere for people to meet outside.

I had to go to Beckenham yesterday, the pool at The Bridge was full. At Beckenham it was busy but the car park was empty. So I had to conclude that these were all local people who just fancied a swim and walked there - aren't they lucky!

I did not see any 'links' on the designs, unless you mean 'the pavements' on Dartmouth Rd. These are 10-15 mins walks. Past the Bird-in-Hand. Through the underpass of doom. In the winter. Dark. Raining. Forget it.

Once people are in their car, then it starts to get competitive - who ever can provide parking with the best maintained centre and with the best facilities, cheapest and brightest will get the custom.
FH pools was not well maintained and so it lost out despite having some parking. A refurbished pools will do better.

If the proposed 'Salcombe House' Leisure centre (without parking) does not attract similar numbers of customers as similar sized centres (with parking) in the borough, it will be closed, flattened and sold off. And no-one will be too bothered at that point.

It is not too late to sign the petition.

As Perryman so rightly says, it is not too late to sign the petition:
http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/save...-hill.html
The architectural richness and civic scale of the existing buildings cannot be matched by any 21st century building - particularly one that is built within 'realistic' construction budgets. In the current housing market, financing a new complex by clearing the site and packing it with the kind of flats designed to appeal to first-time buyers is madness - especially when most commentators say that the 'credit crunch' will last for 2-3 years. In the hands of the right architect, refurbishment of the frontage block and Louise House will preserve the character of Dartmouth Road and will leave ample space for the provision of a new pools complex.

It is linked by turning the pool and its entrance 90 degrees so that it is facing towards the station and there is a pull in by the entrance on all three options. In the dark or poor weather people get out there and the driver pays to park round the back as happens now when I go to Beckenham. A concession could be used to encourage pool users to park behind Sainsbury's.

Also you may be underestimating the willingness of local residents to accept parking on the roads where they live. As I noted yesterday, it worked before with no parking controls at all because the majority of pool users walked -and I was including the times when it was really busy, Sat mornings and after school, before residents cars returned. Presumably they are pool users too, I wonder if anyone has bothered to consult them?

You seem to say that it is essential that parking is provided for a substantial number of pool users. I was not aware of a plan to provide parking for anyone other than the disabled. Is the refurbished scheme that you support hoping that parking be provided on this site for wider use than disabled parking - everyone?

When I was at Forest Hill Boys School in the 60's walked to the Pool over German Bridge. Seem to recall about 10 mins, but of course could be wrong.
Surely not wrong to want to encourage people to walk where possible, I usually walk up to at least 2 miles. Is not obesity a big problem in more ways than one. Someone mentioned a chicken shop , surely teachers would be there to make sure children did not stop in shops.
Anyway as some people offended will try to be more positive.

Good to have you back Brian!
You are quite right - you would hope children from the schools in walking distance - 10-15mins - will walk.
(However the German bridge has safety issues at the moment).

kingfisher, I think lack of parking within a reasonable walking distance is a big issue with the Salcombe centre proposals. Turning the building's back to the library does not make it any nearer to the centre/parking, or even visible from the centre.

Let me expand on option 4 a little. The refurbishment option will allow free reign to modernise the tank area of the pools to something brighter and modern. Only the front of the building is sacrosanct. Not only is there parking in the front of both Louise Hse and the pools, but disabled/extra parking could be provided at the rear on what is now lawn. (ie better use made of the service rd of the discredited options 1-3).

Louise Hse is turned into a study centre (in line with its charter of training the under privileged young) - with banks of computers with fast connections to tackle the digital divide. Quiet study areas are also essential, in densely populated areas and are valued and rare in SE23.
Other features: A good selection of periodicals, reading/meeting room, and a permanent revolving display of the artwork of Havelock Wk.

And if there is any money left, how about a clock for the library?

Thanks Perryman , been away for few days.
What are the safety issues for The German Bridge please. I have heard nothing and use many times along with lots of others.?

Public Meeting 7pm Thursday 21 August at the Forest Hill Methodist Church and Centre on Normanton Rd SE23
As a recap - in February 2008 the Mayor of Lewisham approved the redevelopment of the Forest Hill Pools and Louise House site in order to bring new leisure facilities to the area. The Stakeholder Group (an inclusive Group of the key stakeholders including representatives from the Sydenham and Forest Hill Societies, swimmers, schools, residents and traders) held their first meeting in May. At the June meeting the group considered how we can redevelop the space next to Forest Hill's Grade II listed library and considered the feasibility and housing options from the consultants, HLM. The Council is currently consulting local residents on the three concepts that have been produced for the development of a new leisure centre including a six-lane 25-metre pool, learner pool and associated dry leisure and community facilities.

An exhibition was on display at People's Day on 12 July and the full exhibition was outside Forest Hill station on Friday and Saturday 18-19 July following the delivery of 20,000 flyers to homes in Forest Hill, Perry Vale and Sydenham wards. You can view the background papers and options online and take part in the survey at http://www.lewisham.gov.uk/foresthillpools. The exhibition was running at Forest Hill library until 8 August with residents providing feedback on the printed forms on the three options, range of facilities and other comments.

Focus groups are taking place with 'seldom heard groups' in accordance with the Council's consultation strategy, and further active consultation is taking place with local schools, businesses, and swimming clubs. Council officers have offered to meet with representatives from both the Forest Hill and Sydenham Societies in addition to their ongoing involvement with the Forest Hill Pools Stakeholder Group.

As an adjunct to the consultation programme a public meeting has been arranged for Thursday 21 August at the Forest Hill Methodist Church and Centre on Normanton Rd SE23. The meeting will run from 7pm to 9pm.

The evening will include a presentation on the background to the Mayor's decision and will give local residents the opportunity to speak to local councillors and leisure officers about the current proposals. The exhibition which details the three development options will be available, and Council staff will be present to answer queries and to gather feedback on the options that have been presented as part of the consultation.

The Stakeholder Group will be meeting at the end of August to review the feedback from the consultation. Comments from the Stakeholder Group will be included in the report to Mayor and Cabinet on 17 September which is an open meeting starting at 6.30pm at the Town Hall in Catford. The tender for the architects is running in parallel with the consultation so that work on the design can progress once the option is agreed.

We look forward to seeing you on 21 August. If you have any queries about the meeting please contact Hilary Renwick on 8314 6359 - hilary.renwick@lewisham.gov.uk or contact myself or Cllr John Russell who will be co-chairing the public meeting.

Can I just say, that although this meeting is welcome, it isn't exactly convenient to hold a public meeting near the end of the Summer Holidays. Why couldn't it have waited a couple of weeks, lots of residents will be taking their holidays at this time, including me?

So saving Forest Hill Pools intends that extra parking for everyone is provided at the back of the library and Louise House in addition to the parking at the front. The service road just got even busier.

You provide detailed plans for the use of the existing buildings but are vague regarding the provision for swimming. Your reply confirms why I changed my mind about the campaign for the retention of the Superintendants Building and Louise House. It is mainly concerned with saving buildings that will not produce income when in operation but require income to be found to maintain them. The swimming pool is secondary and its prospect of success will be compromised by sharing the site with competing facilities that are already provided elsewhere and as well as next door in the library.

Excavating a new tank pool across the back of the site could result in huge additional costs to support the existing buildings and strengthen their foundations. In addition money would also be needed to provide lift/disabled/fire access to the upper floors, wherever the public will have access.

This scheme has many flaws and depends on the old buildings taking precedance over the provison of a swimming pool. I still prefer option 1

10-15 minutes? Did you mean "Stopping for a pint in the Bird-in-Hand"?

Now that the first section of the consultation process has been completed I am making the submission of the Forest Hill Society available on our website at http://foresthillsociety.blogspot.com/20...orest.html

As I say on the website: We understand that this may not fully represent the views of every single member of the Forest Hill Society or of the wider community but ... we have listened to many views from local residents to make sure that we do represent a significant section of local residents.

Please feel free to comment on the FH Society submission on this thread, directly on the FH website in the comments section, or by email to email@foresthillsociety.com

And don't forget the next opportunity to discuss the pools with the council is the public meeting which is on 21st August (see above).

Dear all, apologies for my absence - have been unwell but I am now around and available to help out with any petitioning/campaigning if there is still time.

Seeformiles, it's great to hear that you are back and I do hope that you're now better. Please feel free to PM me for details of how to help with the campaign to Save the Face of Forest Hill.