The map just shows a summary of the lines that are either currently being served and in the future.

For example Thameslink will also serve stations via New Cross to Dartford, which will relieve pressure on the congested London Bridge to Charing Cross NR line.

It'll be interesting to see how Thameslink services will be squeezed into the congested slow lines at FH and HOP, but I wouldn't be surprised if we lose the 2tph Southern trains to LB from Caterham to accommodate Thameslink.

However I'd rather see a through service from FH to stations like Farringdon, City Thameslink and St Pancras than stopping at London Bridge.

Forest Hill to City Thameslink would be brilliant for me as I work about 2 minutes walk form City Thameslink. Bring it on (if I'm still working here in 2015 of course...)

Though the Thameslink project has been given the go-ahead in full, I don't think the routeing details of the new services north and south of London have yet been finalised. The introduction of Thameslink services on the slow lines between London Bridge and East Croydon was not, as far as I'm aware, in the original proposals. The first I saw of it, it was being mooted as a (cheaper?) alternative to the services on the South-Eastern routes to Dartford, which would necessitate extensive re-alignment of the tracks between London Bridge and New Cross to avoid conflicting train movements. If Thameslink does end up going to Dartford, it's unlikely to come to HOP and Forest Hill as well.

Page 114 of the South London Route Utilisation Strategy published March 2008.
   
The planned morning peak service via Forest Hill for 2015 was:
10 tph ELL
2 tph London Bridge
4 tph Thameslink

Let's hope it is the same now planned for implementation in 2019, with 12 carriage trains.

Going by the South London Route Utilisation Strategy, Southern would lose 4 paths per hour in the morning peak to Thameslink, leaving the 2tph from Victoria to cover the London Bridge only service.

I really can't see TfL adding another 2tph to the Overground service under the current economic climate.

If we were lucky TFL would take over the Victoria-Crystal Palace-London at the next franchise renewal for South Central. This would leave us with two operators, TFL and Thameslink.

TFL are already planning to increase numbers of trains on the ELL with the phase 2 extension to Clapham Junction, so the addition cost of the increase in services on our branch would be relatively small by comparison (less than the cost of building Surrey Canal Road station for example).

Part of the reason for switching us to Thameslink is that the lower level station will be smaller, so it will need to cut the number of services using this part of the station. The removal of the SLL will not reduce the services by enough to relive congestion at the lower station. If we don't get Thameslink services we are most likely to start losing services again.

If I recall, these new Thameslink trains will get 12 cars, while our platforms are being extended to take 10 or 12 cars next year?

As you say Michael, if TfL took over the outer South London line, it would at least guarantee a regular service, even on Sundays which for some reason Southern are not interested in providing currently and provide another loop to connect with LOROL's other services at Clapham Junction.

My only concern if we get Thameslink instead of Southern is are these trains going to start from places like Brighton or Three Bridges where the chance of getting a seat will be back to the bad old days of trains starting from Surrey in the mornings where you didn't get a seat?

The Thameslink stopping services would start at South Croydon and the Selhurst depot, so there would be plenty of space for South Londoners - the point is partially to have space on the trains when they reach London Bridge and Blackfriars to provide a fast service linking London Bridge, Blackfriars, City, St Pancras, so it is in their interests to make sure there is enough space for all of us!

Plans currently only exist to extend the platforms to 10 cars along the line. This is primarily for the extended trains that might come when they cut the number of peak services through Forest Hill to allow for the works to take place at London Bridge (presumably in 2015-2019 rather than 2012-2015). It is annoying that they are not doing the extending work in one go, and there are concerns that we will end up with 8 car trains for our Thameslink route rather than 12 car trains, which would be unlikely to adequately cater for commuters on our line in 10 years time, let alone the commuters joining the trains at London Bridge/Blackfriars.

Plenty of questions still to ask, but at least Thameslink will go ahead in some form. I just hope that it is not at the expense of our services rather than improving them.

Christmas services on our lines: (Mainly sourced from Southern)

Xmas Eve: Normal M-F timetable in operation with final service by 10pm.

Xmas Day: No service

Boxing Day: No service on Southern or London Overground. (Last year, Southern operated 2tph)

Mon and Tues 26 and 27th: Saturday timetable in operation. London Victoria via CP services will terminate at Streatham Hill due to engineering works.

Wednesday 29th December*, Thursday 30th December* and Friday 31st December*

A Saturday service will operate with additional services to London Bridge at peak times.

*Peak time ticket restrictions will apply on these days.

Saturday 1st January: A Sunday service on Southern.

Sunday 2nd January: Normal service

Monday 3rd January: Saturday service on Southern and LO.

Tuesday 4th January: Normal M-F service resumes.

Appalling service this evening

The National Rail Oyster PAYG fares for 2011 have been released.

A basic summary:

Forest Hill to London Bridge, Victoria, Waterloo (East) or Charing Cross: £2.80 a 20% increase during the peak. Remains at £2 off-peak and the paper single goes up to £3.40 (£3.10).

Forest Hill to East Croydon will be £2.30 during the peak and £1.70 off-peak.

The TfL fare PAYG for travelling to Zone 1 via Canada Water or Whitechapel will be £2.90 peak/£2.50 off-peak.

Did you also notice that the afternoon peak seems to have disappeared on some routes?

Forest Hill - Westminster
2010 Oyster Single fare:
£2.70 Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.
£2.40 At all other times including public holidays.

2011 Oyster Single fare:
£2.90 Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930.
£2.50 At all other times including public holidays.

So getting to/from Zone 1 Tube on a typical commute will cost the same (£5.40) in 2011 as 2010.

Confusingly, this does not seem to apply to Overground journeys out of London or to National Rail journeys, where the afternoon peak still applies.

2010 Oyster Single fares
Forest Hill to London Bridge [London Underground]
£2.70 Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.
£2.40 At all other times including public holidays.

Forest Hill to London Bridge [National Rail]
£2.60 Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.
£2.00 At all other times including public holidays.

Forest Hill to West Croydon
£2.20 Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.
£1.30 At all other times including public holidays.

2011 Oyster Single fares
Forest Hill to London Bridge [London Underground]
£2.90 Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930. [but NOT 1600 to 1900]
£2.50 At all other times including public holidays.

Forest Hill to London Bridge [National Rail]
£2.80 Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.
£2.00 At all other times including public holidays.

Forest Hill to West Croydon
£2.20 Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.
£1.40 At all other times including public holidays.

Oh yes, the afternoon peak is scrapped on TfL services into Zone 1 from the new year, so it'll be cheaper to go to London Bridge via Canada Water from Forest Hill between 1600-1900 than using Southern.

However they'll still charge peak fares if travelling through Zone 1.

However, the afternoon peak remains if travelling FROM Zone 1 to Forest Hill between 4-7pm as now. This is to encourage passenger usage on quieter services into London which have more space during the peak.

I had missed that nuance. Thanks.

Because of tomorrow's expected adverse weather conditions, Southern are running an emergency timetable with trains to London Bridge reduced to 2tph leaving at x15 and x45 past each hour.

There are no trains to Victoria or East Croydon tomorrow, although you'll be able to change at Crystal Palace for trains to Victoria.

London Overground haven't announced their emergency timetable yet.

Full service for trains tomorrow stopping at Forest Hill in both directions (copied from the Southern website):

London Bridge to London Bridge (via Forest Hill, Crystal Palace and Tulse Hill)

A half hourly service will operate at 06 and 36 past the hour calling at New Cross Gate (11 and 41) Brockley (14 and 44) Honor Oak Park (17 and 47) Forest Hill (19 and 49) Sydenham (22 and 52) Crystal Palace (30 and 00) Gipsy Hill (32 and 02) West Norwood (35 and 05) Tulse Hill (39 and 09) North Dulwich (42 and 12) East Dulwich (44 and 14) Peckham Rye (46 and 16) Queens Road (49 and 19) South Bermondsey (51 and 21) London Bridge arr 56 and 26. The first train will be at 06.06 and the last train will be at 22.06.

London Bridge to London Bridge (via Tulse Hill, Crystal Palace and Forest Hill)

A half hourly service will operate at 03 and 33 past the hour calling at South Bermondsey (07 and 37) Queens Road (09 and 39) Peckham Rye (12 and 42) East Dulwich (15 and 45) North Dulwich (17 and 47) Tulse Hill (21 and 51) West Norwood (24 and 54) Gipsy Hill (27 and 57) Crystal Palace (depart 39 and 09) Sydenham (12 and 42) Forest Hill (15 and 45) Honor Oak Park (17 and 47) Brockley (20 and 50) New Cross Gate (22 and 52) London Bridge arr 29 and 59. The first train will be at 06.03 and the last train will be at 21.33.

How are trains running this morning? The live departure boards are showing a normal service on the ELL and 2tph on Southern on the LB to LB loop.

ELL was running with 20 minute delays

Happy New Year from TfL. Fare rises, a queue of season ticket renewals, then the Jubilee decided not to work properly, so was 10 mins late for work.

However, I was impressed with the interchange at Shadwell for the DLR, not so much with the change for the Central at Bank, having to walk through the Northern Line platforms.