Brian,
thanks for your comment. My sincere apologies. It wasn't my intention to be rude to our PM. This subtlety of English language has escaped me for a moment.

And I agree with you that benefits system can be improved and is not fair to many on and off benefits. The last Government try to address inequalities by means testing that was rather too complex and costly to administer. Somehow I believed more in their attempts to create fairer society. They just picked up a wrong strategy of doing so.

My solution would be along what I saw the Green Party was suggesting in their pre election battle. In short, make one universal benefit and give it to every person (including children). Then tax everyone on everything they earn from any of the sources at the same tax rate. This rate would be balance of expenditure and income the government faces. It is fair to all, as this benefit should be high enough to provide ALL with minimum standard of living. It would be a lot cheaper to administer than the current system. (And before you point out, those who are too ill to contribute by working should receive an extra means tested allowance). This system will encourage people to work as they would always better themselves.

So coming from this point of view the changes proposed seem unfair to me.

derbyhilltop
To respond, I prefer that we feel the pain now (including me) rather than my childrens children feel the pain later.

We all know that the country is in the global recession - why pay off the debt now?
We had higher relative levels of debt in the past and we survived.

Your assumption is that we will be able to continue borrowing the money to 'live it large' - this is not the case. As a country, the UK's credit rating is already under scrutiny. All it will take is a signal that the UK is not being determined in its efforts to reduce its level of debt before its credit rating is lowered, which leads to borrowing money at even higher rates than it is now. So new debt is increasingly expensive, the refinancing of old debt is increasing expensive and the debt burden increases. The cuts are not even to the actual debt, but to try to reduce the interest payments on existing debt!

No one said this would be pain free. Yes, there will always be the 'haves' in the world who are insulated from the pain, and these may include the PM and some of the cabinet. Jealousy will not change the economic position the country is in. And I still do not believe that they are taking any pleasure about the decisions they are having to make. And a Labour government would have been making cuts as well.

The last post sums up the truth. The option of delaying payment of our debts is not now an option at all.

The speed of cutting the debt may be a point of discussion but the point remains that all the focus has been on hammering childrens benefits and that of working parents. Where are the proposals to hammer the rich and the tax evaders, the latter owing millions and seemingly going to be granted an amnesty of some sort to write off part of what is owed? Have I missed those announcements somehow?
Where is the proportionality in all of this for heavens sake, and why the ~~~~ are we still proposing billions more to be squandered on Trident?

The **** that Michael Gove was spouting about educational reform and his position that it was only fair on children to try and improve things quickly doesn't sit pretty with other measures that are increasingly likely to throw many many families onto the breadline and their children ( yes those same children Michael Gove was talking about) into poverty.

Lets get our heads out of the sand and start fighting back, folks. My proposal is to levy the heavier penalties on those with a proportionally higher connection and relationship with City Bankers- the very wealthy.

Roz

In an ideal world you could tax the rich more but intoday's global world they will just move so even furthrt reducing the cash base.

I think I am correct in saying that in all but 1 , or possibly two years , the Financial Services industry has made Billions for the taxpayer.

The fact is already some rich are leaving and any further tax increases they will leave in a torrent , then who will pay for your schools.

All very good points Brian - would the joe public taxpayer not pay for our schools ??

I know, lets cancel all the cuts and then abolish income tax, give out all the benefits like we have been doing and then to pay for it all, increase VAT to 40% and make it payable on everything we purchase, then people in work are happy as they are taking home more money and cacnt complain that their taxes are paying for scroungers to sit at home all day and the people on benefits are happy as they will still get them

I think we should sit about and whinge that it's all the bankers fault that we can't get credit for a big plasma TV we can't afford.

Being reading the Daily Mail again have we Willy

So how many people do you know who sit at home and cant be bothered to work, yet get thousands in handouts, its minimal, unlike the rich tories who flunt the tax system be being paid in offshore accounts, not heard anything about them getting caught of losing money

Minimal !!!!!!!
We have the highest % of non earning households in The Common Market.

Germany had nearly 18 million more people yet less than half our total on disability benefit

If we soaked the rich and drove many of them away do you honestly think the remaining people would be better of ?
Other Financial Centres Singapore , KL , Tokyo , Shanghai , FFM and Paris would love British Financial institutions to migrate there with their staff.

As usual, Brian, you might want to go further than the Telegraph... Your statement is ****.

It's important to note, also, that 'jobless households' also include, for example, a retired couple living alone, or a house full of full-time students: both categories are more likely in the UK than in the rest of the EU where many more retired people and students live within the family unit where there's an earner resident. People are also much more likely to live alone in the UK, so a 'household' constitutes one person.

I wish people would read a little more than the Telegraph sometimes.

http://www.fullfact.org/articles/?catid=...rticlelist

So where do the people on benefits go to get work ??

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11530811

I am not saying there are enough jobs but certainly quite a few. For instance I often notice at our local hospital all the cleaners I see are from Franco phone Africa.

So you want to send them all back there do you Brian so that White British workers can take their jobs instead?

Honestly, do we have to put up with this objectionable racist rubbish any further ?

I do wonder how cutting jobs and forcing so many more people on to benefits is actually helping the economy, but maybe I'm missing something. [/align]

It probably won't help so the economy will have to restrict further ie make less, sell less so its a vicious circle. Where I work they have had to cut contract staff substantially but the work , delivery of essential public services, is still there. Its given to remaining staff who dont have the time to do it but it will probably get done eventually but output will be restricted for some time. If in the manufacturing/ services provision areas then yes, there will be little to 'buy' effectively so the amount of money sloshing around will decrease.
The success of the private sector has always relied on public funding support - its always been a synergistic relationship.

I still think the ConDem approach will tip us all into an economic depression as well as the other kind.


PS to Brian; you won't get White British workers taking these hospital cleaning jobs with such low pay, and actually quite hard work.

Roz - agree with the racist element of some of Brians posts, yet when I made a joke on the Uni thread about the scots, he wanted me hanged, yes I work with a scots guy and we wind each other up, its good - having a laugh and getting on with each other

I am not sure how making an observation that hospital cleaners come from a certain place becomes a racist comment.

Plus, I saw no comment from Brian about sacking the above cleaners and sending them back to anywhere.

PS to Brian; you won't get White British workers taking these hospital cleaning jobs with such low pay, and actually quite hard work

You will not get some parts of the society taking these jobs because they can afford to live on the benefits system provided by the last Labout government, whilst the low paid hospital cleaners have to work hard and pay taxes towards those benefits.

There are jobs in the UK. Yes, some of these jobs do not pay that well, but how is that an excuse for sitting on your behind and doing nothing and living of other people instead.