One last attempt.
1. I didn't say that families had improved security at games. I said that improving security by targeting trouble-makers rather than coralling them into separate areas had allowed families back. With a generally less antagonistic environment, overall trouble had decreased
"As more and more kids, and even families, started to attend, the total level of trouble has diminished."
Sounds pretty like it to me.
2. Once again, you are confusing the issue of bad parenting and the need for adult-only drinking establishments. The point is that the latter only fuels the problem with alcohol in this country that most contributors here want to see the end of. Maybe your solution to rowdy drinkers could be applied to rowdy kids/families. Maybe parents who cannot control their kids should be dealt with by "the management" (in fact I would guess they are)..
This is the classic Clarkson argument of "bad driving causes accidents, not speeding". You continue to point to having children in pubs as some sort of panacea for problem drinking, a belief for which I have yet to see any evidence. Just admit that you want to be able to take your (I'm sure impeccably behaved) kid into a pub and be done with it.
And in my experience, the management are, like everyone in this country these days, too scared of being accused of 'not being fa-mi-ly friendly' to do anything about rowdy children. The one time I've been driven to complain (after some parents did nothing), the management said they were "actively seeking to attract families to the pub, so unless they were engaged in criminal behaviour, we won't say anything to them and maybe you'd like to move seats". There weren't, of course, any other seats. As we were clearly a lesser class of customer owing to our tragic failure to procreate, we left. This wasn't exactly a Wacky Warehouse, either.
In this way, I repeat, pubs are no different to any other public place, and by the same token should also not be places well behaved kids should be excluded from..
No, they shouldn't. Though they are different from other public places. They really are. Kids shouldn't be excluded from newsagents or other shops either. It's just that a lot of the time kids aren't well behaved, so practical restrictions have to be placed on them, such as "Only two schoolchildren in shop at one time please".
3. I don't tune out my daughter's voice (with or without foibles). Instead, I listen to her and talk to her. Instead of ignoring her and therefore encouraging her to raise her voice to attract attention, she now feels part of the conversation and is very well behaved in pubs and other public places..
Good for you. No, really, not sarcastic, good for you. I do worry that it's a bit like how all motorists say "I'd say I was a good driver, but there are SO MANY BAD DRIVERS OUT THERE!!!". But I bet there are lots of occasions on which your daughter does something that other people find annoying that you don't even notice. Really.
Now, I (and others by the way) have already accepted your point about bad parents / annoying children and the rights of anyone (childless or otherwise) to be able to have some degree of privacy from loud noises of any kind (and that should include annoying laughing/shouting/arguing adults as well as children)...
Well, I don't think you have, actually. In fac,t you quite evidently haven't.
Would you do the same for those who think that social places like the pub are for the whole community and not just adult drinkers, and that maybe (just maybe and no stronger) that by making them proper family places where BOTH adults and children are encouraged to act responsibly around alcohol, we might take a small step forward to making Britain a happier and healthier place to live?
I've no objection to well-behaved children in pubs. It's just that they are vastly outnumbered by annoying children, and parents who will do nothing about them. I don't think that by portraying the pub as a dreary netherworld unless one lets kids in does anyone any favours, to be honest. Anyway, I think you're right that this is done to death now.
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