Is a funny thing - the big brewers have got out of the actual pub business, but are the customers/consumers actually any better off? I may not have been a fan of some aspects of old tied pubs, but give me one of those over a Yates Wine Lodge any day. I'm not sure that the tie had that much effect on the quality of the beer - but due to the fact I didn't start drinking in English pubs until the mid-1990's I will have to deign to superior knowledge and experience.

I would be interested in your thoughts on why the MMC report failed.

BD, TJ and I may have a similar idea of what makes a good pub (decent beer is indeed always a start). To go back to the topic of the thread, my own view is that the smoking ban has made a trip to the pub more pleasant in most cases.

Dave - not trying to wind anyone up and shocked at BD's view that others try to do so.

Excellent posting, Baggy Dave.

I used to LOVE Charrington IPA. It is now a dead beer - you won't see it on sale anywhere. Somebody somewhere has a record of the recipe. If only we could revive it.

You are joking right ??

Ian - why would I be joking? When kept and served properly, Charrington IPA was a great session beer. Maybe you had some bad experiences? I can still recall its crisp, earthy and refreshing taste even now.

Well I did drink occansionally in the legendary 'Moore Park Hotel'
But some members of se23.com never had that experience.

I had the great honour of once visiting the Moore Park Hotel when I first moved into the area in the late 1980s. If memory serves me correctly, I saw that it served to real ale, and walked out again.
It's a terrific Victorian building and in its heyday must have been a quite a pub. What a shame that bad management allowed it to get into a shocking state, leading to its closure. If only we could all jump in a time machine, go back to around 1898 and see what these old pubs were like then: snug bars, snob screens, etc.

MMB report failed because it naively thought that you could introduce controls over what brewers sold in their pubs. Some old duffers in parliament thought that you would get far more old codswallop in tied houses. The big 6 saw the light, worked out that you could make more money in other areas of business, even soft drinks, bought each other up, sold out, allowed pub chains to fill the vacuum and here we are.

Can't turn back the clock now, why not just let interbrew (or its even newer and bigger next stage, just own everything). Well at least they got told off for pretending that they were a family business (recent Stella ad).

The funny thing is that Watneys, and yes it was bad, now brew Budlighter under license

Hi, Mr Lawrence in SE4 has built a very smart courtyard at the back of the bar.

It is covered and heated using infrared lights rather than the dreaded patio heaters. He is currently in the process of having a wood burning stove fitted oun there for some additional atmosphere.[/font]

Blimey, I must have missed this one.
Do they serve real beer on draught as well ??

Ian, afraid it's all bottles. However, they do some great ones - Shepherd Neame and the like...

Particularly good French cider as well (with no ice in sight, in fact it is only supposed to be slightly chilled if at all)