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Je Suis Charlie
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ForestHillier


Posts: 490
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #21
19-01-2015 09:56 AM

Good points raised

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roz


Posts: 1,796
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #22
19-01-2015 10:12 AM

Theres much in the media about anti Semitism. Not something I advocate or tolerate but if you replace Islam with similar commentary on Judaism there would be an uproar largely due to history. Dont forget thats what the Nazis did in the 30s to reinforce racial stereotypes and create a head of steam.
However Islam bashing seems to be acceptable following actions of a few rogue elements.

Both religions/cultures are minorities in the UK and Europe therefore such cartoons are not appropriate for that reason alone. There is satirical comment then there are rather less appropriate images being circulated. Its rather different in my view to satirise ' majority ' religions- not morally right but less likely to result in mass attack.

Christianity including Catholicism are wealthy and powerful institutions in the UK. Islam and Judaism are not

Cross refer to the Tariq Ali quote I posted previously.

Je suis moi.

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ForestHillier


Posts: 490
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #23
20-01-2015 11:15 AM

However - I dont recall the US/Europe going onto these so called IS countries and killing innocent people or beheading people who are there as aid workers.

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OakR


Posts: 216
Joined: Oct 2011
Post: #24
22-01-2015 10:18 PM

There is no such thing as an IS country. There are areas of countries that are now controlled buy them, by means of terror or support dependent on your perspective, though clearly terror in my view.

Whilst US and British and other soldiers did not behead people, there are documented, and no doubt undocumented 'collateral damage' incidents which killed innocent civilians as well as soldiers killing 'the enemy' when they should not. You can use language to call those accidents or war or murder, to the families of those killed it probably does not make much difference, allied troops killed their families.

That said, I'm not sure there is a direct relationship to that wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and what ISIS are currently doing.

What the answer is I don't know - no short answer that is for sure and I doubt bombing is the answer. [/u]

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OakR


Posts: 216
Joined: Oct 2011
Post: #25
22-01-2015 10:24 PM

PVP whilst I agree with you that bombing in general does not help etc, the situation in Iraq and Syria is a scary one. We either sit back and let ISIS expand, whilst murdering hundreds or thousands of people, and displacing millions (see the refugee crisis in Lebanon).

Ultimately we and others must convince people not to fight for ISIS, but how that is achieved I really don't know. So in the meantime, do we let ISIS ethnically cleanse the areas they control? I'm not sure I'm comfortable with that. I think there is more argument for military intervention now than the two previous wars we had - but we need a long term plan and we never seem to have one.

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PVP


Posts: 271
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #26
23-01-2015 10:30 AM

Or we stop destabilising the region? If you go back 14 years there were no ISIS, liver eating maniacs in the region. The west's wonderful intervention has overthrown the governments of Iraq, Libya and Yemen. We are also doing our best to overthrow the government of Syria. Strangely enough it is these very areas which are now in chaos, a situation the west tries to disown as having started in the first place.

Also worth noting these countries were mostly secular and outside of the west's orbit. Yet their descent into hell is nothing to do with us.

Now ISIS are posing a problem for the Saudis I fully expect the situation to start reversing. They have served their purpose in causing destruction and time to put the genie back in the bottle.

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OakR


Posts: 216
Joined: Oct 2011
Post: #27
23-01-2015 08:23 PM

PVP, how we got here can be debated, and there is of course value in looking back to history as the same mistakes are often repeated, however this is not about toppling a government.

We are where we are, if we are culpable as you think, is the right response to the slaughter and oppression of people to do nothing, sit back and let it continue?

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