| Author |
Message |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, 01 November, 2006 - 01:51 pm: | |
Hi all,
We are close to agreeing the leasehold on St. Germain's with Punch Taverns and having read some of your posts thought we'd drop a note just to let you know what's going on at the moment as far as we're concerned.
Punch had originally pitched the site as 'mid-market local' - essentially a pub similar to the Brockley Jack in both offer and design. As we both live locally, we were of the view that Honor Oak was crying out for a pub more like the Dartford Arms or The Bishop (E. Dulwich), and so we pitched to them to take it on as a more contemporary / upmarket bar.
We're pleased to say that Punch have been really open to our suggestions and that we are soon meeting with their architects to reconsider the pub's interior etc. If all goes to plan, we should be open early February serving a wide and interesting selection of beers, wines, spirits, cocktails and coffee, and a full menu focused on organic ingredients and fair trade products.
We have also proposed to change the name of the pub to The Honor Oak to signify a new start for the building and what we hope will be an exciting new offer inside.
We'd be really interested to have any feedback or suggestions through the forum at this stage, and assuming all goes well when we meet with Punch next week will start to put details on our website at http://thehonoroak.com (don't look just yet!).
Further down the line we'd be really interested to meet some of you and get an idea of what you'd like from what we hope will become your local pub.
With all best wishes,
Jamie and James |
Brian
Joined 18-04-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, 01 November, 2006 - 02:02 pm: | |
Certainly a move up market , good real beers , good wholesome food , no loud music, great.
Not sure where a lot of the current locals would go |
Megan
Joined 05-03-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, 01 November, 2006 - 02:27 pm: | |
this is brilliant news I always go to East Dulwich for a night out as the local pubs in Honor Oak just aren't for me, but you would certainly get my business. Good luck with the venture. |
Haylands
Joined 29-09-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, 01 November, 2006 - 02:29 pm: | |
Excellent news! I was so hoping that someone with a little imagination and belief in the local area would do this. We're a young family so the idea that you'll be serving good food (organic) will be warmly embraced. Do you have outdoor space planned? Take a look at the Herne Tavern on a weekend...packed with families and their friends. There are many parents out there who would love to eat in grown up pubs/restaurants over the weekend, instead of the local Harvester. We don't get out much during the week, so are itching to spend during the day, over the weekend, also see The Crown in Dulwich, ie warm welcome to families too. |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, 01 November, 2006 - 02:44 pm: | |
Thanks for the positive feedback so far! There will be a small walled garden to the rear of the pub, along with a covered heated area. The pub's forecourt (the area that currently has a fence around it and an abandoned car) will also have seating, although possibly not 'til the summer if today's weather is an indication of the winter ahead!
PS - errata from first post - Dartmouth Arms obviously, not Dartford (although I'm sure there are plenty of nice pubs there). Apologies... |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, 01 November, 2006 - 02:47 pm: | |
And apologies for adding another post, but I ommitted to say thanks for the suggestions, we'll certainly pay a visit to the pubs you mention.
We'd love to see families in there and I might pick your brains about that in the near future if you don't mind. And having just had a look at some of the other threads, I'll also add that we will be serving a full Sunday lunch and dinner! |
Deanos
Joined 01-12-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, 01 November, 2006 - 03:09 pm: | |
Just to clear one thing up... There are no nice pubs in Dartford. |
Kingkong
Joined 22-10-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, 01 November, 2006 - 04:43 pm: | |
Sorry to be ignorant about this, where exactly is the location of this new pub?
Sounds great by the way, already looking forward to it. |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, 01 November, 2006 - 04:49 pm: | |
It's on the junction of Brockley Rise and St. German's Road - shortly before the junction with Stansted Road (south circular) and can currently be seen as the derelict "St. Germain's". |
Kingkong
Joined 22-10-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, 01 November, 2006 - 04:54 pm: | |
Thanks Jamie,
I like the idea of an organic influenced menu - are you planning to serve organic beers and/or cider as well? will you be serving beer at all, or just lager?
K |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, 01 November, 2006 - 05:26 pm: | |
We're not entirely sure just yet, as we're tied to Punch for our beer purchases so we're waiting to see what they're able to make available to us. We have been clear from the outset though that we want to stock more than the bog-standard Carling / Stella / Guinness selection.
As for ales, we'd be really interested to hear any views as to whether they'd be welcome and if so suggestions as to specifics. It sounds like a cliche but we're really keen to re-establish the concept of a community pub so to that end we're happy to be driven by what you all want as far as possible - as long as you come and buy a bit of it of course! |
Bosco
Joined 16-07-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, 01 November, 2006 - 05:31 pm: | |
Hoegaarden please! None of your Kronenbourg Blanc, which I like well enough, but it's not a patch on Hoegaarden |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, 01 November, 2006 - 05:34 pm: | |
Yeah, I'd like to stock Hoegaarden too. And Erdinger, plus assorted others. Kronenbourg Blanc is a poor relation to other beers of a comparable price in my view. |
Robwinton
Joined 07-06-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, 01 November, 2006 - 05:48 pm: | |
Overall, sounds great.
But what about the wines? Any chance of a proper selection or are you tied there too? |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, 01 November, 2006 - 05:50 pm: | |
No, we are free of tie for wines and spirits and intend to stock a proper selection of both. |
Hoppy
Joined 05-12-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, 01 November, 2006 - 07:42 pm: | |
Sounds good jamie. good luck with it... |
Les
Joined 28-01-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, 01 November, 2006 - 11:47 pm: | |
Jamie - really good to hear of your plans.
I suppose most of my pub preferences are based around country pubs with good but unpretentious food, a selection of decent real ales (with a guest), lagers, and preferably a decent draft cider. I like Thatcher's for instance. I'm not a big fan of Magner's but anything is better than Strongbow.
Like somewhere to sit outside in our increasingly hot summers.
A great development.
Les. |
Givenuphope
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, 02 November, 2006 - 12:29 pm: | |
Please no French wine, or cooking wine to use a more fitting description |
Jbird
Joined 13-02-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, 02 November, 2006 - 01:16 pm: | |
Hi Jamie. This is such good news if you can pull it off. It's a nice looking boozer (well, with a bit of work) in a busy area. The success of the Dartmouth Arms shows you'll have punters queuing out the doors. See you in February!
By the way, I know a pub in Bath that serves Bass from wooden casks lined up behind the bar. Let me know if you want the number! |
Djnever
Joined 09-04-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, 02 November, 2006 - 01:51 pm: | |
Such a pub would be another great addition to the area.
I am a firm believer in the 'sunny' beers from a hispanic background. Give me an Estrella Damm, Alhambra, Cruzcampo or Sagres any day. Beats the standard import from Spain of San Miguel (which is brewed in Luton!)
If you could get any of the above on tap I would be a regular.
Birra Moretti (Italian) is also excellent. |
Deanos
Joined 01-12-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, 02 November, 2006 - 02:08 pm: | |
Back to your ale based question, they would certainly be welcome. For me you can't beat a nice list of guest ales, I think that the Herne Tavern does 3 or 4 guests at any one time, which generally means that there's something new to try every week or two. I think that this is where the Dartmouth lets itself down abot. Their selection of ales and often a slight lack of care or knowledge about them tips them over to being more of a restaurant than a pub. Surely its the beer (not lager) that makes a pub? And if you had 6X as a permanent fixture I might take up residence. |
Fanboy_mark
Joined 08-03-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, 02 November, 2006 - 02:33 pm: | |
Great news, Jamie.
Will you be having live music? The plans suggest a raised area which would serve as a stage. I'm in a local band and we have our own PA. If it's something you are interested in, you can email me at mark@scottmoods.com |
Baggydave
Joined 19-05-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, 02 November, 2006 - 05:40 pm: | |
If the name has always been St Germains then you shouldn't change it. BJ has a great theatre but not great beer. Grump grump. Good luck |
Seeformiles
Joined 09-04-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, 02 November, 2006 - 05:58 pm: | |
I agree about the name issue - I don't think you should change it if St Germain's has a historical significance, it seems a shame. And as the resident child-hater (only joking) will there be a quiet area where youngish sprog-free adults can go? |
Bosco
Joined 16-07-2004
| | Posted on Friday, 03 November, 2006 - 09:40 am: | |
What French wines do you drink givenuphope??!! Clearly LIDL own brand if you think it equates to cooking wine! |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, 03 November, 2006 - 10:33 am: | |
Phew - apologies for delay, I was out all day yesterday. In brief...
Draft cider other than Strongbow - yes.
French wine - can't guarantee not to have *any* as I'm rather partal to a Chateauxneuf-du-Pape, although we will have lots of non-French wine you can drink instead.
Bass - yes, I'd love the name / number please, I didn't realise Bass was still in existence having not seen it since they sold off all their pubs!
6X - will have a go if it's available to us.
Live music / raised area - we're not sure if the raised area will still be in there as we've agreed a lot of changes to the flooring. If it is, we're aiming not to have live / loud music in the pub itself, but to eventually develop the function room as an adjoining space for parties and entertainment, so I'll catch up with you as and when this happens (it probably won't be done until after the main pub is completed).
Name change - our biggest concern was getting away from the poor reputation of the old St. Germain's. There appear to be rumours that it was associated with certain undesirable activities. I don't know whether it has always been St. Germain's or if this is a bastardised version of The St. Germain Hotel or similar and would be interested to hear any factual history anyone might be aware of. There is also the less significant question of whether it's a 'likeable' name - St. Germain's on St. German's road rather reminds me of Hyacinth Bucket (pro. Bouquet)...
Children - the aim is the cliched warm welcome to all; we're intending it to be a child and family friendly pub rather than an all-out creche, so I'm sure we'll be able to find you a corner! |
Jbird
Joined 13-02-2006
| | Posted on Friday, 03 November, 2006 - 11:12 am: | |
Hi Jamie. Contact details for The Star are:
Web: www.star-inn-bath.co.uk
Email: landlord@star-inn-bath.co.uk
Tel. 01225 425072
Good luck! |
Stevegrindlay
Joined 24-10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, 03 November, 2006 - 01:53 pm: | |
It has been called the St Germain's Hotel or Tavern since it opened in 1865. It is named after the Earl of St Germans (note no "i" or apostrophe) whose title comes from a small village in Cornwall, and is a contraction of a Celtic saint, St Germanus. The family name of the Earls is Eliot and for several centuries the were the second largest landowners in Lewisham (after the Earls of Dartmouth). So anything in Lewisham with either St Germans (and its mispellings) or Eliot relates to land once owned by this family. That seems a good enough reason to keep the name. |
Robwinton
Joined 07-06-2006
| | Posted on Friday, 03 November, 2006 - 02:04 pm: | |
I don't think we ought to stick to names for the sake of it, but I would also vote to keep the name as it is.
I would also say that The Honor Oak might be a bit misleading as I would guess it does not quite fall in the right area (then again Brockley Jack is actually in Crofton Park is it not?)
If you are worried about the reputation, I would not worry. These things come and go and it is now probably better to stick to something with "authenticity" and history than have to explain the change to everyone for the next 10 years.
Just a thought |
Andy
Joined 23-02-2005
| | Posted on Friday, 03 November, 2006 - 03:42 pm: | |
Keeping the name of the Dartmouth Arms doesn't seem to have done that establishment any harm, even though it wasn't the most salubrious of places beforehand. |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, 03 November, 2006 - 04:36 pm: | |
All name comments taken on board (and thanks for the history, Steve).
We have a meeting with Punch on Monday, could anyone with any specific drink wants who hasn't already done so please post them so as we can go through them with the suppliers?
Thanks for all your continued input, I never imagined we would have so many helpful comments so quickly. Have a good weekend. |
Seeformiles
Joined 04-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, 05 November, 2006 - 08:18 am: | |
Good news about you serving cider other than strongbow. Whenever I go walking outside London it's relatively easy to get decent draft cider but here it's a rarity unless there's a special promotion.
One of my favourites is Thatchers, especially the Gold variety but Westons is also very nice. Thanks for taking my comments about kids on board. It's hard to say these things without being seen as a misery, but when pubs get dominated by a particular group it's not much fun for anyone else, although I know it must be hard to keep a balance. Best of luck with your new venture. |
Leaf
Joined 08-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, 05 November, 2006 - 02:52 pm: | |
re the name change;
since this pub is more brockley than honor oak it seems rather silly to give it the name that you have suggested,as said previously,it has been known as the st germain for a long time,im sure that your ideas for the new pub will be all it needs to show folk that it is better than and in no way associated with what was there before.
great to see it is being re opened,it does look a mess at the moment!
good luck with the new venture!. |
Laura
Joined 19-07-2006
| | Posted on Monday, 06 November, 2006 - 08:52 am: | |
Come on. It's miles (literally) closer to Honor Oak than Brockley. But still it's in neither, rather it resides in the area with no clear identity. West Catford Tavern, anyone? |
Laura
Joined 19-07-2006
| | Posted on Monday, 06 November, 2006 - 08:55 am: | |
Oh - and by the way - I'm really excited about your plans and I hope that Punch Taverns let you go ahead with them. All I need now is for the ubiquitous Fried Chicken outlets to transform into cosy Italian Bistros and... BINGO! |
Orangutan100
Joined 05-11-2006
| | Posted on Monday, 06 November, 2006 - 11:06 am: | |
There is currently no where to go for a pre dinner drink in and around Honor Oak, this is just what the area needs. Best of luck, if anything like The Dartmouth/The Bishop then you are guaranteed my business.
Re. the name change, would definitely move away from St Germain. This is a new venture with a new market, by reference to Honor Oak I believe your custom would predominantly come from this area (families and young professionals). |
Givenuphope
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Monday, 06 November, 2006 - 11:19 am: | |
Since you ask, Bosco, I do not drink French wine unless doing so is unavoidable (at a wedding or other function). Anyone who says, "More than two glasses of wine gives me a headache" is clearly accustomed to drinking French wine. Oh, there are indeed good French wines but they are prohibitively expensive. The rubbish the Europeans put in their wines is disgraceful. Why? Because the EU subsidises every bottle produced, unlike Australiam Chile, Argentina etc. Why do you think the Australians have taken to printing Vegetarina on the label? I don't expect you to agree but you asked. What by the way is Lidl? Does it collect its wines from the wine lake? |
Bosco
Joined 16-07-2004
| | Posted on Monday, 06 November, 2006 - 12:13 pm: | |
Givenuphope - I was being facetious with the Lidl comment!
We all have differing tastes when it comes to wine, and my preference is, generally, for European reds. Also depends on what you call prohibitively expensive. |
Tapastry
Joined 10-09-2006
| | Posted on Monday, 06 November, 2006 - 01:08 pm: | |
hi jamie,
really pleased for you taking on the st germain...it has heaps of potential...
i own mclarens and tapastry in hop...
if you need and help with contacts and suppliers
then just drop me a line on tapastry@btinternet.com
all the best
jason |
Tapastry
Joined 10-09-2006
| | Posted on Monday, 06 November, 2006 - 01:18 pm: | |
hi jamie again....
reading on what everyone has said...
this is just my opinion not a suggestion...
i would keep the st germain as well...think about it
the st germain is a classy cafe restaurant district in paris... that would be your link with history and authentic...
just a thought also
good luck... |
Baggydave
Joined 19-05-2004
| | Posted on Monday, 06 November, 2006 - 01:18 pm: | |
Just stock Magners as that is what people seem to want to drink nowadays, although see that Bulmers and Gaymers are also trying to get in on the act following the success of the marketing people.
But otherwise check out the Gowlett and/or the Market Porter to see what they sell in terms of independent breweries. Personally 6X is too sweet and Bass lost it years ago (as did all the other 'national' real ales - Courage, Burton etc). I'd avoid Greene King, but obviously I'd put a plug in for Wolverhampton and Dudley who do the Banks', Marstons and now Jennings beers. |
Laura
Joined 19-07-2006
| | Posted on Monday, 06 November, 2006 - 01:21 pm: | |
I was going to suggest The Gowlett in E. Dulwich as a place that seems to have got a lot of things right. It's a lovely place to spend an afternoon or an evening. |
Seeformiles
Joined 09-04-2005
| | Posted on Monday, 06 November, 2006 - 01:42 pm: | |
Magners - noooo! It's like syrup. Would be nice to have some choice for us discerning cider drinkers just as cask ale fans get a bit of choice.
Although I did read that the Magners success story has triggered a bit of interest in other brands of cider so it's not all bad. |
Djnever
Joined 09-04-2006
| | Posted on Monday, 06 November, 2006 - 03:43 pm: | |
Just on the name I would call it The Honor Oak as that area needs re-inventing. If you go with old name, the area wont feel like its moving on.
Just my opinion. I can see why it might be associated with Brokley though, being on Brockley Rise.
My thought would be to call it the The Honor Oak and go for a heavy wood-themed, preferably Oak (geddit?), interior. |
Seeformiles
Joined 09-04-2005
| | Posted on Monday, 06 November, 2006 - 04:00 pm: | |
DJnever I know you're all for progress but it can be a mixed blessing. I'd hate this area turn into Clapham or East Dulwich. I like it around these parts 'cos it is still down-to-earth and I feel very grieved seeing so many historic boozers get a face-lift only to become another gastro-pub clone. You have to admit they all do look the same and I find that depressing.
A refit which stays true to the original character and history is important - and that goes for the name too. |
Fhssecretary
Joined 12-10-2006
| | Posted on Monday, 06 November, 2006 - 04:29 pm: | |
Agreed. I think it is preferable to the type of clone that has sticky patterned carpets, fruit machines and a predictably uninteresting selection of drinks, though.
In this case and in that of the Dartmouth it would be hard to argue that it is a fantastic old boozer being spoiled.
I don't think it really applies round here, but I am sure most people can do without the sort of down to earth "traditional features" sometimes found such as the ability to buy stolen goods and witness fighting, too. |
Seeformiles
Joined 09-04-2005
| | Posted on Monday, 06 November, 2006 - 05:02 pm: | |
I think a balance of old and new is best. Of course I'm not suggesting boozers at the other extreme are preferable but they have their loyal punters too and not everyone can afford gastro-pub prices. |
Leaf
Joined 05-08-2006
| | Posted on Monday, 06 November, 2006 - 07:47 pm: | |
does it really need to have a new name?
surely the differences in the layout,decor and running of the place will be what it is judged on?
calling it something else just sounds pretentious |
Mattg
Joined 17-10-2006
| | Posted on Monday, 06 November, 2006 - 11:09 pm: | |
I have to say, I'm in favour of the name change - break away from the association with the old pub.
We're nearby, so I look forward to being one of the first through the door. Good luck, Jamie!
Matt |
Baggydave
Joined 19-05-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, 07 November, 2006 - 12:55 pm: | |
How about the Brockley Jim? Or perhaps the Brockley Tarquin.
I think a new thread is needed on pubs with fighting and stolen goods. I have lived in the area for 20 odd years and never seen a fight or been offered any stolen goods. Where are these lost gems where old traditions remain alive? I think we should be told.
I also think this pub should have a bar billiards table. There's a hole in the market in FH for this at the moment since the DA converted theirs into a bruschetta counter.
In fact they should maintain one male-only bar where we can play billiards and fight one another while wearing pork-pie hats. There should be a second bar with red plush banquettes where we can take our ladyfolk out for a port and lemon on a Saturday night. Actually all a bit like the Crystal Palace Tavern used to be.
And while I'm ranting the DA has only a small and predictable range of beer and not serving that especially well. Will the new owners of the St Germaains invite CAMRA SE London branch round to quality assure them?
And changing the name is utter utter nonsense. It should be against the law to have pub names changed. Especially to generic names like the Honor Oak Park. You should not even be thinking it.
SFM - see earlier comments about East Dulwich/Clapham in the posting on beer in the evening dot com - a view on the East Dulwich Tavern - precious but rather blunt! |
Fhssecretary
Joined 12-10-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, 07 November, 2006 - 01:53 pm: | |
I think you have to go further afield for "pub shopping" and bar room rumbles - was just adding these to a list of "traditional pub features" whose passing will not be mourned. |
Seeformiles
Joined 09-04-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, 07 November, 2006 - 05:15 pm: | |
thanks BaggyDave, I checked out the site and particularly enjoyed the comment following yours about Clapham! I'm afraid I find it impossible to walk around E. Dulwich without grinding my teeth and hope that FH doesn't go the same way.
And to keep this on-topic I wish St Germain's well but with reservations about it becoming too trendy and soulless, like so many refurbished pubs. Witness the Market Porter's new extension -no one ever wants to sit in it (including me) preferring to hang around the cosier older area near the bar. |
Leaf
Joined 05-08-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, 07 November, 2006 - 07:26 pm: | |
hear,hear baggy dave! |
Simon
Joined 18-07-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, 08 November, 2006 - 01:01 pm: | |
Seeformiles: just out of interest what's the problem with the way E. Dulwich is now? Lots of new places to eat and drink etc there and I would hope that the re-development of St Germain's is another step for FH along that route. |
Mch
Joined 27-09-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, 08 November, 2006 - 01:55 pm: | |
Good point Simon, I for one would like it for Forest Hill to be more like East Dulwich. Lots of well done up pubs, great places to eat, etc. Can I say the words "free market economics" in respect of owners of pubs investing their money into a decor (and name) that they think will make them money? |
Baggydave
Joined 19-05-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, 08 November, 2006 - 02:45 pm: | |
Ask Emma and Ron (proprieters of the Hob/ EDC) what is wrong with Dulwich or see their article in that SE23 freebie posted through our door, they lived there for over 15 years and saw the great changes.
From cutting edge/frontline to noveau Clapham. Not that losing some of the low life is a problem, but a a victory of style over substance aint my cup of tea. You are in a danger of losing all the traditional places with their unique and interesting character and moving to a shopping mall culture (Bromley!) full of Wotherspoons and starbucks.
An interesting comparison is the Angel (where not all the paths are paved with gold). The first mile along upper street is full of chain places, probably a feature of the high rates. The next mile has all the interesting independent places.
Anyway Baggy Dave does not believe in the myths about the free market. Fine if we all had proper choice but the whole thing is so skewed by the lifestyle marketing people, which is why people drink Magners. Did you hear me? I said that is why you dear readers drink Magners. And this is not just the ravings of a sandal wearing hippy, I've actually worked in something to do with promoting free markets. No more or else I will give the game away, but a hint is that I mentored Edward Ballz |
Mattg
Joined 17-10-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, 08 November, 2006 - 02:58 pm: | |
I'm with Mch and Simon on this one... |
Domc
Joined 17-03-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, 08 November, 2006 - 03:53 pm: | |
behind Mch, Simon and Mattg.
Very few chains in E Dulwich.
And I hate Magners, give me a proper pint of bitter any day. |
Jbird
Joined 13-02-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, 08 November, 2006 - 04:01 pm: | |
Thought this was worth a cl
"Did you hear me? And that is why you dear readers drink Magners."
Baggydave - a quick comment: We're not your readers, we're contributors to this site, same as you. |
Djnever
Joined 09-04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, 08 November, 2006 - 04:17 pm: | |
I wouldnt say Baggy Dave represents the "audience" of a nice, modern, clean, crime-free area. This is basically what East Dulwich is - Brockley Rise/ Stanstead Road needs to take a step in that direction if we want people to want to live around there. I guess it all boils down to house prices...
I take his point on places losing their soul, but you think Stanstead Road has a soul? This area will benefit from ANY investment, never mind a gastro-pub. |
Baggydave
Joined 19-05-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, 08 November, 2006 - 04:21 pm: | |
OK, the gauntlet has been laid down.
Now....
East Dulwich used to be an ordinary decent south London suburb with a decent mix of good diverse south London residents. It had its boring bits but it had a good selection of proper pubs and a good range. It's gained a few decent shops but it's lost a fair few interesting ones too to the march of the moneyed classes. Worst of all is that Lordship Lane is now full of plastic pubs full of plastic people all seeking to enjoy themselves in an oh-so-aspirational way. They're overpriced and overfull of mindless twenty somethings. All the other people - i.e. those who don't actually want to listen to Coldplay soundtracks, while drinking ice-filled cider and reminiscing about the corporate hospitality at Glastonbury - don't have anywhere decent left to drink.
It's cultural imperialism, cultural vandalism and a triumph of the lowest common denominator. Yes people, company people, non-voters, non-protestors, non-thinkers, non-engagers and most of all non-beer drinkers.
Citizens of Forest Hill resist. Let us die on our feet rather than live life on our knees!
(or to quote some of our US cousins - Forest Hill, love it or leave it, would'nt you rather live in Eye-ran (or East Dulwich in this case). |
Mch
Joined 27-09-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, 08 November, 2006 - 04:41 pm: | |
Crikey! I suspect, BaggyDave you are using extremity for effect but as my history teacher used to say WRG, wrong rash generalisation.
But hey, what does it matter, Forest Hill is already started on the path of progress/ruin and improvements/vandalism leading to a better/worse place to live. In the end death on one's feet will make no difference in the face of the peoples choice of beer or anything else, even Magners.
One thing that can be said is that Forest Hill clearly still has diverse residents as demonstrated by the debate above. |
Robwinton
Joined 07-06-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, 08 November, 2006 - 04:42 pm: | |
This is beginning to drift off topic, so maybe we can bring it back a little?
There is a terrible tendency in this country for ALL high streets, whether they be London 'towns' or even country villages, to have EXACTLY the same mix of shops (you know the roll-call: WH Smith, Boots, etc.).
To a certain extent this is true of drinking establishments. It is risky to aim for a small niche, so you spread your appeal wide to include non-traditional drinkers (particularly targeting women and families). It is also expensive to bring old buildings up to modern standards.
What this means is that owners naturally gravitate to what are seen as 'safer' options, thus resulting in a lack of real choice.
To this extent I am with Baggy et al.
On the other hand there is no need to stick to the past for the sake of it and twentysomethings need places to go like the rest of us.
Very little of this area's commercial architecture is really worth saving. What we are really talking about is establishing some point of difference from other places.
Coming back to the St Germains, I think that we would all like to see the building in use. If this could be done in a way that reflects some genuine local history and understanding, and hopefully something different from a run-of-the-mill East Dulwich/Clapham/Chelsea 'destination' even better.
There is business potential in niche services (see the queue at the butcher on Lordship Lane for example) that are well run and well publicised, so let's all help Jamie and support him to do "the right thing". |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, 08 November, 2006 - 06:08 pm: | |
Reading all this with great interest - there are lots of valid points here and we're noting them down and discussing them on an almost hourly basis.
I have to say - for better or worse - that we have always had the bars of East Dulwich in mind as something that we aspire towards. I hope, however, that we can make a move in this direction whilst still accommodating the various other things duly noted as being important.
More than anything, we want the pub to have character, and be cozy and welcoming and friendly. But I really don't accept that modern environment and 'traditional' atmosphere are mutually exclusive - although I know of many places which appear to have made a clear choice one way or another.
The best I can do in explanation is to say that we hope very much to create a 'local' pub for the 21st century. I await with both fear and excitement your judgement as to whether we succeed...
Thanks for your continued contributions and support.
Jamie |
Laura
Joined 19-07-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, 08 November, 2006 - 06:59 pm: | |
I'll just be delighted if you give out free (organic) cheese and pineapple chunks on cocktail sticks for your opening night. |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, 08 November, 2006 - 07:09 pm: | |
Done! |
Seeformiles
Joined 09-04-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, 08 November, 2006 - 08:46 pm: | |
BaggyDave: you've put the point across eloquently. Simon: in answer to your question it's the pretentiousness of E.Dulwich I find particularly annoying. I would have no teeth left if I lived there! |
Mattg
Joined 17-10-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, 08 November, 2006 - 10:31 pm: | |
This is an interesting one. I largely agree that so called 'trendy' high streets (such as Clapham High Street) become sanitised by chain pubs all serving the same dross. However ED has a number of fantastic independent pubs and restaurants, delis, butchers, cheese mongers, green grocers etc etc (and relatively few chains.) If Forest Hill continues in that direction then I for one will be very happy. I will be sad if starbucks, All Bar One, pizza express et al take over East Dulwich or Forest Hill but we should all be behind people like Jamie who are looking to bring something new and exciting to the area.
Right, I'm off to listen to Coldplay whilst drinking ice filled cider!!
Moving back onto topic... Jamie - how did you get on with the brewery on Monday? |
Seeformiles
Joined 09-04-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, 09 November, 2006 - 01:21 am: | |
I feel happiest in areas with a healthy demographic mix and pubs for all age groups and income levels. |
Baggydave
Joined 19-05-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, 09 November, 2006 - 12:10 pm: | |
Glad I have stirred up some debate.
Take a pub, actually a wonderful pub (as was). The Pheonix and Furkin in Denmark Hill. David Bruce set up a small and wonderful chain. It was perfect in so many ways. But then he sold out, it went through a number of owners, more interested in the brand. They stopped brewing beer. It mutated into an O'neills for heavens sake and even though back under its existing name it simply isn't the same. Whether the crowd of 20 somethings want the noisy sound system and DJ, or just expect it, I don't know. We didn't need it in the 80s and 90s. Under the ownership of the a caring and talented individual it was wonderful. Once the big pub chains took over, no longer. Take note |
Drobnik
Joined 19-04-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, 09 November, 2006 - 08:45 pm: | |
baggy - a very sad note further to the demise of david bruce's former empire - the fox in catford no longer sells any ale, only lager and guiness, the shame the shame.
i would suggest to jamie that he stocks one or two easily kept real ales along with all the fizzy stuff to keep us proper beer drinkers happy and good luck regardless of what you call the pub. |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, 10 November, 2006 - 12:05 pm: | |
All good with the brewery - the list of available products isn't amazing but it could have been a lot worse.
Current draft plans (doubtless subject to some change):
Carlsberg
Stella
Leffe
Hoegaarden
Staropramen
Guinness
Adnams
Hancocks
6X
They didn't give us the list for cider (by mistake) so I have no news on that at this stage. Hopefully there'll be something decent on there.
We're looking at wines and spirits at the moment. |
Baggydave
Joined 19-05-2004
| | Posted on Friday, 10 November, 2006 - 12:35 pm: | |
Three brands from Imbrev (formerly Interbrew) the world's largest brewer and another giant, Carlsberg. All brewed under license in the UK no doubt. Not very inspiring Jamie. Anyway no doubt you've done your market research, and there are other places for old gits like me to drink. It all went wrong with the Beer Orders 1988, that were supposed to open up the market, but just moved the power from the large breweries (who have since generally quit the market) to pub chains! Although I take it that Punch allow some freedom for managers/leasees
I'll reserve further judgement until I've visited.
Shame about the Fox but I'll leave that to another thread. |
Fhssecretary
Joined 12-10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, 10 November, 2006 - 12:46 pm: | |
I should really confine myslef to comments on FHS matters with this user name, but for what it's worth... whilst Leffe is owned by the Evil Empire you can't really knock the quality (if you like that type of thing) and I don't think that it is brewed in the UK. As for Stella and Carlsberg though...
A beer dream team - more contributions welcome:
Lager: Youngs Pilsner / Czech Budweiser
Bitter: quite partial to good Pride - sorry!
Stout: Titanic / Youngs / whatever, don't really drink it |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, 10 November, 2006 - 01:12 pm: | |
Baggydave, as per my earlier post we are tied to Punch on our draft and packaged beers and ciders and have no freedom to pick more exotic beers from elsewhere. This really isn't our fault and would be the case whoever was taking on the lease, I'm afraid. We have complete autonomy on wines and spirits however.
I'm afraid lager-wise this is pretty much the best of everything we can get, I too do not think too much of Carlsberg or Stella but I'm not stocking a pub based solely on what I would buy - there will always be people who want these beers, the key is to offer the best alternatives we can for the more discerning drinker.
However, I just picked the ale examples based on the earlier request for 6X and a couple of others I personally don't mind. If you'd like to suggest other ales I will happily stock whatever I can that you think is good, although to begin with I can't commit to having more than 3 on at a time. If the bar is successful and people want more ale we will consider addding lines later.
I haven't it with me at the moment but I will post the complete list of available ales (which is actually fairly extensive although not necessarily 'inspiring') next week and you can make your pickings from that.
In honesty, my personal 'speciality' is spirits, and I'm partial to an 'exotic' lager (although I can't appear to buy any of them) so I don't have any qualms about taking ale advice from a CAMRA afficianado. |
Baggydave
Joined 19-05-2004
| | Posted on Friday, 10 November, 2006 - 01:16 pm: | |
Jamie, I think we have exhausted this one! I'll come over one night with Camra mate/s and we can discuss in a more cordial atmosphere, obviously doing some free sampling of your range.
The point on the Beer Orders 1988 is a serious one, a real government home goal, but no turning back. You should check out the beers in the Houses of Parliament bars, and just as importantly the prices! |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, 10 November, 2006 - 01:18 pm: | |
BD - sounds good to me. I'll order some tankards. |
Deanos
Joined 01-12-2005
| | Posted on Friday, 10 November, 2006 - 02:45 pm: | |
Alright, Jamie. I'll put my tuppence worth in on your list. First of all, I'm not a massive lager drinker, but do think that your list of lagers will keep your average lager drinker happy enough. Satropramen in enough of a nod towards quality to keep them happy. Besides, you can increase on this with your bottles, probably. As for the couple of Belgians, not my cup of tea again (though I love Belgian beer), purely because they taste a bit chemically to me. As for the ales, I'm chuffed about 6x, but the trick is in keeping them well. Someone above mentions Pride, which can be an amazing pint or a dreadful one, depending on where you go and how well they look after the beer. For example, others don't take good enough care of their ales, so you often get a substandard pint that's too cold and more often than not cloudy too. The Hearn Tavern has a good range of beers, but it wouldn't matter if they didn't, because someone there obviously knows what they're doing in the cellar.
I don't think that the real ales that you choose will either make or break your business. The demographic that you seem to be after probably won't be there for the ale. So for my money, the 3 ales you've picked give a decent cross section and most ale drinkers will find a style that they like, but (at the risk of sounding boring) only if they are well cared for. Chuffed about the 6x though, it's a cracking pint. I'll definately be dropping in when you open. |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, 12 November, 2006 - 03:01 pm: | |
Cheers Deanos. The other Jamie's run bars for years and fancies himself at keeping a good cellar so hopefully we'll hit the mark on the ales.
There will indeed be a decent enough selection of bottles too, although again there are some things we can't buy that I'd like to.
Any other contributions of course welcome... |
Franny
Joined 12-11-2006
| | Posted on Monday, 13 November, 2006 - 10:12 am: | |
what are your proposed opening hours jamie? also do you have a scary dog? the railway's slobbery dog is really off-putting. |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Monday, 13 November, 2006 - 11:05 am: | |
Proposed opening hours are 10am - 12am Sunday - Thursday and 10am - 1am Friday and Saturday.
To pre-empt any concerns, this does not mean that we will be running an O'Neils - we will endeavour to maintain a relaxed and civilised atmosphere throughout! |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Monday, 13 November, 2006 - 11:06 am: | |
And, no, I don't think anyone could call my dog scary. It's a Yorkshire Terrier the size of a cat, and if he bothers anyone he'll be confined to the flat! |
Franny
Joined 12-11-2006
| | Posted on Monday, 13 November, 2006 - 11:36 am: | |
Great.
I'm looking forward to opening night. I live a stone's throw away from the pub so will be popping in. My other half would like to know if it will be non-smoking inside. |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Monday, 13 November, 2006 - 12:11 pm: | |
Great - look forward to meeting you.
It will be non-smoking inside, there will be a covered area in the rear garden for smokers.
Apologies to all smokers, but there seemed little point in allowing smoking when it's set to be outlawed six months after we open! |
Pat
Joined 12-11-2006
| | Posted on Monday, 13 November, 2006 - 12:47 pm: | |
Hi Jamie, I moved to the area last year. What you're planning sounds great, but I agree with keeping the current name of the pub - you need a bit of history. Beer selection sounds good but please don't forget some nice wines for us non beer drinkers. I love the non-smoking too, the worst thing about pubs is going home smelling of other people's smoke. Can't wait for you to open up! |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Monday, 13 November, 2006 - 01:02 pm: | |
Fortunately wines are much easier for us to buy than beers so we hope to have a nice list for you when we open, and will happily take requests thereafter! |
Robwinton
Joined 07-06-2006
| | Posted on Monday, 13 November, 2006 - 01:47 pm: | |
Jamie
Suggesting wines is much more difficult than beers as there are so many thousands out there, but could you give us an idea of what you are planning on the wine front so, like the beer drinkers, we might have some input? |
Franny
Joined 12-11-2006
| | Posted on Monday, 13 November, 2006 - 01:58 pm: | |
I'm not fussy. I quite like the J.P Chenet red and white that you can get at savacentre. I'm not an expert on wines but I like them. |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Monday, 13 November, 2006 - 02:27 pm: | |
Initially we're planning to stock 6 or 7 red and white ranging from about £10 - £30 / btl, a rose (or white zinfandel etc etc), a sparkling wine and a champagne.
We're hoping to meet with our wine supplier over the next few weeks - until then I can't really say anything that's of much use. However if people want to state preffered grapes etc, that would probably be useful to know for the meeting.
I guess I'd also be interested to know what people would consider their maximum spend on a bottle of wine (assuming of course that the quality was on a part with the cost). If there's a market there we can extend the range accordingly.
Rob - I'm particularly interested to hear your suggestions with a view to later making it into the occasional local wine lists thread! |
Robwinton
Joined 07-06-2006
| | Posted on Monday, 13 November, 2006 - 02:45 pm: | |
ha! no preferential treatment though
well, my own preferences would be for:
* Rioja red & white (barrel fermented preferably)
* a new world (dry) riesling (Australia)
* a 'classic' sauvignon blanc (not something too over the top from NZ, maybe France or South Africa)
* an easy Italian red, maybe something from Sicily
* a 'value' selection from the South of France but with a difference (taking a risk on some unusual names or varietals)
* a quality Pinot Grigio - just because it is made from this grape doesn't mean it has to be cheap and nasty
* a good dry rose (French or Spanish)
And what about a regular 'special' where you only buy a few bottles and when it is gone it is gone. This could be more expensive and/or adventurous (NZ Pinot Noir, good California Cabernet, etc.) and be in response to your customers' suggestions
On the other hand NO WHITE ZINFANDEL, please!
happy to take part in any tastings, of course |
Michael
Joined 04-03-2005
| | Posted on Monday, 13 November, 2006 - 02:58 pm: | |
It would seem obvious to have a few bottles of Chateau Saint Germain available. I found a website that mentions a vinyard by that name in the south of France: http://www.vins-languedoc-roussillon.fr/u/u-cdl-so 01.html#ancre352454
They might produce nice wine, or possibly not. Only one way to find out! |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Monday, 13 November, 2006 - 03:11 pm: | |
Are you sure no White Zin? I had a lovely posh bottle once, gallo or something?.. :-)
Ok, I'll take that along when we meet the wine man. I think wine tastings are a great idea and something we'll definitely schedule in once we're up and running. Likewise the special. |
Robwinton
Joined 07-06-2006
| | Posted on Monday, 13 November, 2006 - 05:08 pm: | |
Interesting Michael. You are right - here it is:
http://www.didiervins.com/v_stgermain_rouge.htm
The label looks a bit dodgy, and I don't think anyone imports it to the UK at the moment, but I have seem some good reviews of it from Canada where it does well. Sounds nice and modern wines from Languedoc Rousillon can be very nice.
Unfortunately I don't think it would be in the house wine category!! |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Monday, 13 November, 2006 - 05:58 pm: | |
Bizarrely, it's actually available in Sainsbury's. |
Robwinton
Joined 07-06-2006
| | Posted on Monday, 13 November, 2006 - 07:40 pm: | |
well, not surprisingly, there are appear to be two different producers.
The one Michael found, and I sent the link about, is from the South of France.
Sainsbury stock a wine from Bordeaux and it is on 'special offer' at £4.27
(I have not tried either so no recomendations) |
Gemma
Joined 05-11-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, 14 November, 2006 - 09:28 am: | |
Jamie,
I live very near the pub and am pleased with your plans for it. So will definitely be popping in when you open.
Reagrding wine I agree with Rob a good sauvignon blanc (preferably NZ in particular marlborough region), a good pinot grigot and also on the rose front I would say a pinot grigot blush. Perfect for summer. Champagne - I think Lanson Black Label or slightly pricey Veuve Cliquot! |
Kingkong
Joined 22-10-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, 14 November, 2006 - 10:57 am: | |
This new venture is sounding better and better, I'll be sure to pop in when it opens.
When is your target opening date? |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, 14 November, 2006 - 11:40 am: | |
'Grand opening' either 2nd or 9th of February - will confirm when we know how building works are progressing. We'll probably also open our doors in the evenings the week before to any of you who fancy popping in - more details nearer the time. |
Fanboy_mark
Joined 08-03-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, 14 November, 2006 - 01:35 pm: | |
Will you be stocking the Mini Cheddar? |
Annie
Joined 27-06-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, 14 November, 2006 - 01:38 pm: | |
Jamie and Jamie, we are so looking forward to the opening. The prospect of fairtrade, organic food, a lovely Marlborough sauvignon blanc and no-smoking pub just around the corner from us is a dream come true! |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, 14 November, 2006 - 02:50 pm: | |
I'm sure we can include Mini Cheddars as a guilty pleasure, but we might have to hide them behind the bar and agree some sort of secret handshake.
Thanks so much for the positive comments. |
Robwinton
Joined 07-06-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, 15 November, 2006 - 09:10 am: | |
Just to clarify, for the record, I did suggest including a Sauvignon Blanc, but I would bet that you could get a wine that was as good or better, was more unusual and also certainly better value, from South Africa or a new wave Loire producer.
However, Marlborough does have the consumer recognition, but it wasn't that long ago that no-one would touch a Sauvignon Blanc that was not from the Loire or Bordeaux. Strange isn't it?
By the way, I see works have started in earnest. Good luck! |
Baggydave
Joined 19-05-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, 15 November, 2006 - 12:20 pm: | |
Jamie, are you going to get Scott Moods in to do a gig when you open, as suggested by Fanboy earlier. Saw them do another cracking gig in Greenwich last night and you could help them achieve critical mass.
I beleve that one of their songs is in praise of fair trade coffee and organic wine. You'd better check them out then! |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, 16 November, 2006 - 11:25 am: | |
Good to hear such a positive review!
Can someone post forthcoming dates for them? |
Fanboy_mark
Joined 08-03-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, 16 November, 2006 - 12:15 pm: | |
I can. Purely in the spirt of pointing out that there are no outlets in the area for all the local live bands and that the St Germain - as I hope it will be called - may add to SE23's culture by bucking this trend. Full details of gigs are on our myspace account, you can listen to songs there:
http://www.myspace.com/scottmoodsuk/
And our website:
http://www.scottmoods.com
There are also videos on there one filmed at the BHT - it could have been you - and the other on the streets of SE23 and the Ivy House in Nunhead.
I could easily get 3 bands for you all from the local area. |
Lola
Joined 24-11-2006
| | Posted on Monday, 27 November, 2006 - 12:35 pm: | |
Hi Jamie
It sounds like you are going to bring some wonderful colour to the area. I'm particularly interested in your lunchtime menu as I go to a Saturday morning class in the Brockley Centre just next door (another hidden treasure to be found in SE23!). I think lunch/drinks after class would be a great idea with my lovely classmates! Best of luck! |
Lola
Joined 24-11-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, 29 November, 2006 - 12:57 pm: | |
Jamie, there is an old B&W photo of the front of St Germmains in the fish & chip shop on Honor Oak Park that may be of interest to you. |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, 29 November, 2006 - 01:29 pm: | |
Thanks very much - I'll check it out!
Jamie |
Simon
Joined 18-07-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, 29 November, 2006 - 04:33 pm: | |
Jamie,
How are the works progressing? Still on target for Feb '07? Not that I'm looking forward to having a decent pub 2 mins away or anything....
Thanks |
Pat
Joined 12-11-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, 30 November, 2006 - 01:37 pm: | |
Yes it would be great if you could open in February. I have just found out I am pregnant and the only pub I can find with a decent non-smoking area is the Wetherspoons in Forest Hill. Let us know if you're still on schedule to open next Feb? |
Liz
Joined 26-04-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, 30 November, 2006 - 02:00 pm: | |
Tapastry in HOP is entirely non-smoking. Not exactly a pub, but certainly a place you can go for a civilised drink. It's also child-friendly until 7.30 so post-pregnancy it could be quite a haven. |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, 30 November, 2006 - 04:44 pm: | |
Hi all,
Apologies for lack of recent updates - it's been a very busy couple of weeks!
Works are currently one week behind, entirely our fault due to having redesigned the (physical) bar and general layout, but the contractors are confident that they will catch this up over the next couple of weeks.
Even if they don't, we will still be on target to open at the beginning of February as the proposed hand-over date (ie when we can get into a finished building and setup) is 19th Jan.
More updates to follow...
Best wishes,
Jamie |
Simod
Joined 28-11-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, 13 December, 2006 - 02:51 pm: | |
Hi Jamie,
Can I just start by saying how me and my mate Dave (his real name- not rodney, and not a friend of Ali G either)are really excited by the development of the pub.
Having lived on the Stanstead Road for the last two years, there has been a distinct lack of boozers within walking/stubbling distance (delete as applicable).
Unfortunatley the Blythe is a little too old worldy for my tastes! Although none of us wants another souless 'McPub' either, with ridiculous tacky american pop culture plastered everywhere !!!
I personally think you should keep the name as St Germains. As well as being historical, it just sounds a lot better than The Honor Oak (which is really about a mile away with no connection anyhow).
Please please please say that you will have a few plasmas showing the footie! The nearby area has a lack of quality boozers showing the footie! (Wetherspoons is too far and has no atmosphere and Chandos the wrong type!). It would be nice to relax in some comfortable leather sofas etc with a pint watching all the underacheiving, overpaid prima donnas.
Dont get me wrong, I'm not into all the pretentious rubbish of Dulwich/Clapham but it would be nice to have some comforts in a clean, light and modern space.
The drink selection sounds pretty good to me, but as long as it is wet and reasonably priced I'm not complaining! :0)
Have you been in 'ONE' a new pub at the beginning of Lee High Road junction with Belmont Hill, Lewisham? This place seems to match what you guys are pitching for. Its pretty modern though welcoming, with pleasant comfortable surroundings and good food. The music is'nt played too loudly either, so you should be able to hold a conversation (before 5 pints!).
I agree with some of the other postees. It would be good to have bands etc playing every now and again. Maybe on a lazy sunday? and other special events maybe once a month. Being a proud southerner this is one thing we are pretty poor at compared to those north of the river. We need things going on in the area to create that buzz! Bring on battle of the bands!
Is upstairs going to be a function room? If so, it could be good for monthly events. (Trafalger Tavern in greenwich, used to be good for this, whilst not compromising it's regular clientele).
Unfortunatley I can't get most of my old mates from Greenwich to drink in Forest Hill and I think thats a real shame. They are not a bunch of toffee nosed ponces, but would like somewhere interesting to drink.
Anyhow, I digress, sorry but I have been dying to get this off my chest for a long time! I'm fed up and too old to be travelling to Greenwich etc for a decent pint and having to dice with the lottery of the night bus home for far too long. :0)
Good luck with it all, have a great xmas and that extends to all in SE23, and I look forward to being one of your 1st customers through the smoke free door come Feb.
Cheers
Simon |
Fanboy_mark
Joined 08-03-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, 13 December, 2006 - 02:57 pm: | |
Whoa...
No smoking? I must have missed that. In order to deal with the shock I must go and spark up a Camel. |
Haylands
Joined 29-09-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, 13 December, 2006 - 04:30 pm: | |
Unfortunately we will probably have to wait until July. Although it would be a shame to let the place become smoke stained for just a few months before the law sets in. What are your plans on this one Jamie? The Dolphin in Syd have opened with a smoke free policy and are providing an heated area outside for addicts. |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, 14 December, 2006 - 12:40 pm: | |
No, we'll be no smoking from the outset simply because come July there will be nothing nastier than not being able to smoke in a pub that stinks of stale smoke. There will be a covered, heated area for smoking out the back.
Simon - thanks for all your comments. There is a function room, although not upstairs, which we have just agreed the first phase of work on (it wasn't included in the original Punch scheme). Once it's finished we're planning to have occasional bands djs etc on in there, but won't be having loud / live music in the bar area as (aside from our view that it's better to give people the choice as to whether they're entertained whilst drinking / eating) there isn't really space for it in there.
Rather than having plasmas, we've put in an area with sofas and a TV that people can use as they wish (although the landlord's decision is final in the event of any channel disputes)! |
Simod
Joined 28-11-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, 14 December, 2006 - 01:28 pm: | |
All sounds great Jamie.
Your plans for seperate rooms for Dj's, bands + tv area should please everyone! ...hopefully :0)
I'm getting rather excited and can't wait for it to open. Come feb, I should have shed my excess Xmas pounds in order to start working on my beer belly!
I'll be the first through the door with my tankard inhand, hoping to be your new regular!
Cheers
Simon |
Baggydave
Joined 19-05-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, 14 December, 2006 - 09:16 pm: | |
It would be interesting to hear from those of you who frequented the old St Germains. Clearly those posting look forward to the reincarnation. But for many years it served the needs of others in our community. See the SE23 pub crawl thread for an earlier visit. |
Andy
Joined 23-02-2005
| | Posted on Monday, 18 December, 2006 - 02:27 pm: | |
Mark doesn't actually smoke. 'Sparking up a Camel' is just an odious little habit he picked up in the Middle East. |
Dotcom
Joined 21-04-2005
| | Posted on Monday, 18 December, 2006 - 02:44 pm: | |
I bet he gets the 'hump' now! (Sorry, had to say it before anyone else got it in). |
Hoppy
Joined 05-12-2005
| | Posted on Monday, 18 December, 2006 - 09:48 pm: | |
shame on you dotcom |
Fanboy_mark
Joined 08-03-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, 28 December, 2006 - 11:44 am: | |
All I know of the St Germains earlier incarnation came for the redoubtable, yet often doubtful Terry from The Blythe. I'd love to hear the history of this strange dark place. |
Ghis
Joined 02-01-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, 02 January, 2007 - 05:40 pm: | |
Looking forward to the opening. Since the link in the first post does not work, when will you set-up a site with the menu etc? Also a mailing list to keep us updated for upcoming events etc would be cool. In any case we will be there on the opening night! |
Laura
Joined 19-07-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, 03 January, 2007 - 09:42 am: | |
Got excited last night - walking past when there was work going on inside with the lights on, so could have a bit of a nosy. When are you opening for business again? |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, 03 January, 2007 - 11:58 am: | |
Happy New Year. Opening 'party' will be on Friday 2nd February, but we should be opening our doors some time in the week before - can't give a concrete date for the first pint to be pulled until the building work's finished!
The website should be online (at the previously mentioned address) by tomorrow morning.
Best wishes,
James |
Ghis
Joined 02-01-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, 03 January, 2007 - 05:21 pm: | |
Brilliant! Friday 2nd booked in the diary but will try to come for a drink as soon as it is open too. |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, 03 January, 2007 - 11:14 pm: | |
Slight amendment - I have to wait for some work on the hosting service for the website to be completed, so it won't be live until late on Thursday / Friday morning now - apologies! |
Djnever
Joined 09-04-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, 04 January, 2007 - 01:32 pm: | |
whats the website address again? |
Robwinton
Joined 07-06-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, 04 January, 2007 - 01:47 pm: | |
Djnever - it is listed in the first posting
This, of course, would seem to imply that despite the pretty clear views on this thread (unless I misinterpreted it) the name will be changing to The Honor Oak, is that right? I didn't see a specific comment from Jamie to confirm this.
I look forward to the opening events too |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, 04 January, 2007 - 05:31 pm: | |
Yes, I'm afraid so. In fairness there are also comments from people in favour of the name change here - after much deliberation we decided that this was something on which we had to follow our own hearts, I'm afraid.
We did agree, however, to install a plaque stating the history of the building as posted on this forum - although I realise that is probably of little consolation to those of you who were dead set against the name change.
I hope, however, Rob, that you will be able to see that we did make the most of your comments with regards to the wine list, which I am pleased to say is now online at http://www.thehonoroak.com - I hope it meets with your satisfaction.
The beginnings of the site are up, minus the cocktail list which I will add either tonight or tomorrow, and various other bits which will be obvious when visiting. You will need to have flash player installed in order to view the site - if you haven't got it (or you're not sure) just head for the site and a link should pop up so as you can download it.
I will add a 'mailing list' function in the next couple of days, where you will also be able to leave your address to allow us to post you a proper invitation to the opening (which also entitles you to 20% off your first drink).
Best wishes,
Jamie |
Laura
Joined 19-07-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, 04 January, 2007 - 11:28 pm: | |
Great. Just had a look - it's all looking really promising! I actually preferred the old name, but I'm not curmudgeonly about these things.
Thanks so much for taking this pub on - I think you'll find there's quite a few of us who are most grateful. |
Djnever
Joined 09-04-2006
| | Posted on Friday, 05 January, 2007 - 11:52 am: | |
great stuff, looks impressive, cant wait to try it out |
Jonny
Joined 31-05-2006
| | Posted on Friday, 05 January, 2007 - 01:53 pm: | |
Jamie, really excited to read about your plans and to see the progress you're making with the venue. Just one small plea - could you look to develop more vegetarian dishes for the menu. At the moment the sample menu only offers butternut squash soup followed by butternut squash risotto. Best of luck. Looking forward to 2nd February. |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, 05 January, 2007 - 02:03 pm: | |
Ha ha, hi Jonny - yes, I did notice that as I was uploading it. Don't worry, it is only a sample to give people an idea of the sort of stuff we're planning to serve - the actual menus will do a better job of accommodating the veggies, I promise! |
Robwinton
Joined 07-06-2006
| | Posted on Friday, 05 January, 2007 - 02:55 pm: | |
Hats off to you Jamie! I think the wine list looks very interesting indeed. A great mix of styles and countries, and some brave & interesting stuff too (such as the Pinot Gris, Riesling, Pinot Noir & Malbec). [As an aside, you might want to check the description of the Viognier before you print any lists as this does not make sense as it is].
I am afraid I only know one or two of the actual wine brands listed so I guess I will just have to make a visit or two to try them ALL out.
Best of luck
(oh, and shame about the name, but it is not a life or death sort of thing)
See you on the 2nd |
Tapastry
Joined 10-09-2006
| | Posted on Friday, 05 January, 2007 - 04:50 pm: | |
hi jamie impressed with the menu reminds me of the hoxton grill hotel in shoreditch, if you not been maybe check it out, for me they got there pricing spot on... i'm fully aware what's on your plate over the next couple of weeks....i'll pop in mid feb for some lunch, when the dust settles....
i also admire the way you have marketed yourself, it's been noted,you've inspired me to get off my but and finish my web site....
good luck mate and to echo what rob said hats off to you all again
jason |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, 05 January, 2007 - 05:10 pm: | |
Thanks guys - the positive feedback is very much appreciated at the moment!
Jason - let me know when your site's done - we could link to eachother? |
Les
Joined 28-01-2004
| | Posted on Friday, 05 January, 2007 - 11:14 pm: | |
Jamie,
More nit-picking I'm afraid, but on your site you call 6X and Pride 'keg ales', and upset my CAMRA member pedant mate. Wouldn't it be better to call them cask or draught beers? Keg normally means something like Worthingtons best i.e. horrible.
Les. |
Les
Joined 28-01-2004
| | Posted on Friday, 05 January, 2007 - 11:16 pm: | |
p.s. a great development by the way. |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, 05 January, 2007 - 11:29 pm: | |
Good point - my apologies. Duly amended, and I've had a go at making lighter reading of the Viognier description as well. |
Fhssecretary
Joined 12-10-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, 06 January, 2007 - 01:19 am: | |
It's not so much lighter reading as the fact that viognier is a grape in its own right... check your source! |
Hopjim
Joined 01-09-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, 06 January, 2007 - 12:36 pm: | |
Great news, have seen this being developed and just had to add my two penneth!.
1/ Good luck indeed, this area will clearly support the style of pub you are planning, I was about to start a campaign to get the Brockley Jack bought out and renovated! so a great relief that your project is going ahead!.
2/ I'm from a town just a few miles from St Germans in Cornwall, and have very fond memories of teen paties in the village hall there..and some coming of age in the woods!!..anyhow, definately pronounced without the 'I' in it.
3/ PLEASE have some decent ale/bitter on, not asking you to be like a Market Porter affair at borough ( though that would be nice) but please some decent real ale...ie not Pride or Green King.
4/ We'll be in there on the opening night and helping you to make it a success.
Good Luck |
Hopjim
Joined 01-09-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, 06 January, 2007 - 12:59 pm: | |
Am so excitied by this but only 2 ales!!! There is a proper Wine Bar further up the road.......and FIVE ciders?? you dont get that in a pub in Dorset, why so many here?...I feel sorry for the fella who is planning to storm the place with his tankard!...we'll still be there though! |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, 06 January, 2007 - 07:42 pm: | |
To be fair, there are only four ciders, one of which is Magners and it doesn't look like we'll be able to have Addlestones until a few weeks after opening anyway! But I'll happily consider taking one off... bizarre though that may be.
As for ales, I'm afraid the pub company have only put in the facility for two (admittedly without our objection as the list of ales available to us isn't particularly interesting). As per earlier posts, we are tied for beers and therefore can't explore the depth of range we would like unfortunately. |
Hoppy
Joined 05-12-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, 07 January, 2007 - 06:51 pm: | |
sounds good jamie, looking forward to it. The list of drinks looks good to me. I always think you should look after the 80%. No place can have everyones favourite beer - you list looks good. |
Les
Joined 28-01-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, 07 January, 2007 - 10:16 pm: | |
I'm very happy with the cyder range for one! |
Foolsgold
Joined 12-11-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, 10 January, 2007 - 12:45 am: | |
Had a nosey look on the way home after reading for a while and not posting, looks great, you will have a great bunch of punters in us! The wine sounds great ( well sold by the experts above!) but am I alone in thinking that what we down this neck of the woods of FH will be looking forward to most is a quality sunday roast! nice music, the football ( in a designated are with sofas of course) and a relaxed atmosphere. Good luck Jamie, see u in there! |
Robwinton
Joined 07-06-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, 10 January, 2007 - 09:06 am: | |
Yes, nice to see the security shutters off the windows. It seems strange to see the big windows as it has been boarded up ever since I moved to the area.
Yours, in anticipation, as ever,
... |
Notapoet
Joined 09-01-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, 10 January, 2007 - 11:14 am: | |
Jamie - firstly, good luck with the venture. Just what the place needs I reckon.
My only (very minor) gripe is that you don't seem to have Manhattens on your cocktail list. Why do bars constantly overlook this most delightful tipple?
I have registered on your mailing list but I think I did it three times before spotting the note at the bottom of the page...sorry! |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, 10 January, 2007 - 03:57 pm: | |
Yes, I'm pleased to have the scurity sheeting off too... we're supposedly more-or-less on schedule for taking the keys at the end of next week.
Thanks to all who have joined the mailing list... no worries to those who have clicked more than once - it should really change to tell you it's been sent but there's a bug with the page that I can't work out.
I will happily add the Manhattan to the cocktail list.
Best wishes,
Jamie |
Simod_the_bod
Joined 28-11-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, 17 January, 2007 - 12:54 pm: | |
I've had my nose pressed up against the windows a few times recently and I must say the place is really beginning to look the business!!
The builders are working extremely fast (and long hours! Whats your secret? Maybe they can be sub-contracted to the Stanstead Rd/Hurstbourne site :0)
The main bar is looking great, especially with all them shiny pumps!
I'm really glad to see that BECKS is on tap! Much too rare in my opinion! Best 'clean' lager by far!
What was the other Artois lager (Pegoni?) that was on tap other than the 'Wife Beater'? Cant say I've ever heard of it. Although looking to forward to a free sample? :0)
Chandiliers look great by the way!
Any chance of opening up next weekend?
Not sure I can contain my excitement for much longer!!!
P.s How far behind is the function room running?
Oh... and the website looks great by the way!
Cheers |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, 17 January, 2007 - 07:42 pm: | |
Thanks Simod_the_bod,
Don't know - we've been really lucky with contractors and they're determined to finish on time. More's the pity therefore that someone broke into the pub last night and stole all their tools...
The other Artois one will be Peeterman - I'm still waiting to hear whether it will be in straight away or a few weeks later. It's not as strong as Stella - their attempt to lose a little of the wifebeater reputation, apparently. We'll see how it goes as it's generally a bit of an unknown quantity at the moment.
We won't be open next weekend but probably evenings the week following in the run up to the 'official' opening on the 2nd.
I think we will be able to open the function room along with the rest of the pub - the aim is for it to be open on the 2nd - but we're only able to do basic works to it at the moment and will probably close it again at some point in order to bring it up to the same standard as the main bar. We can't afford to do that just yet (too much money sunk into the rest of it) but it seems silly to leave it empty so essentially we're doing the bare minimum to make it a useable party room. I hope you will all bear with us from that point of view!
Best wishes,
Jamie |
Dave
Joined 11-01-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, 18 January, 2007 - 08:54 am: | |
Thought I would join the general chorus of appreciation - drove past a few times over the past week or two and have been amazed at how good the place is looking.
Very disappointed at the break-in/theft - hopefully after opening you won't have similar problems.
Really looking forward to the Honor Oak being open for business - good luck! |
Haylands
Joined 29-09-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, 18 January, 2007 - 09:31 am: | |
Hi Jamie
thanks for the invite recieved it yesterday. My wife is a little concerned that she won't be allowed in or more importantly sample some of the fine fare you'll have on offer. I've assured her that the invite will admit two. Was i wrong to say this? Or shall i add her name to the mailing list too? Babysitters been booked and looking forward to the evening. See you there! |
Kingkong
Joined 22-10-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, 18 January, 2007 - 11:53 am: | |
Hi Jamie,
Thanks for my invite too, received it yesterday, but I can't make it!!
I have to go away to India for work that week, but my girlfriend says she will definitely be there. Hopefully completing on a house near your new pub in a few weeks time, so perfect timing with the opening.
KK |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, 18 January, 2007 - 11:54 am: | |
Hi - yes we're open to everyone that night. We'll only give the drink discount in exchange for an invitation (essentially as a mark of gratitude for all your ongoing support and input) but apart from that all are welcome.
Looking forward to meeting some of you! |
Brian
Joined 18-04-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, 18 January, 2007 - 12:23 pm: | |
Mybe me but cannot see when you are opening or are you open |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, 18 January, 2007 - 12:26 pm: | |
Brian, 'official' opening 2nd february. Probably open a few evenings in the week leading up to it - will post when I know the building's finished and working!
Thanks to everyone RSVPing - if you haven't received an invitation yet but have signed up it's just because I haven't written them all yet - it will be with you imminently! |
Simod_the_bod
Joined 28-11-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, 18 January, 2007 - 01:59 pm: | |
Phew! I was getting worried that I had'nt received my invitation yet!
Now that the 'THE HONOR OAK' signatures are up on the pub (looking very classy by the way), I think I've changed my mind and may prefer the name change after all!
Peeterman Artois sounds good, I will certainly enjoy sampling it!
Really sorry to hear about the ****** scoundrels nicked the workman's tools!
If it in anyway hampers the opening of the pub, I'm sure quite a lot of us would be willing to do a night watch of the premises with the view to a public lynching of the perpretrators!!!! :0)
I was round my mate Dave's last night. (Dave who I suspect has finally just joined this forum. Shame on you!)
He is doing his best to turn me into an alcoholic and has just introduced me to the joyous world of Port!
God damn it, another tipple that now takes my fancy!
Any plans to stock the stuff? Planning on having it as my first drink in my new local!
Cheers Jamie,
Simod_the_bod |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, 18 January, 2007 - 04:51 pm: | |
Thanks for the offer but we've put a security guard in there for the time being and don't expect it to hold things up significantly!
I realised I had left port and sherry off the list and have added both to the first order to our spirits supplier!
Best wishes,
Jamie |
Pat
Joined 12-11-2006
| | Posted on Friday, 19 January, 2007 - 12:21 pm: | |
Hi Jamie,
Just to add general congratulations on the decor - it looks great. Walked past last night about 9pm and spotted the poor security guard in the bar - hope he gets some free drinks for his lonely work.
Looking forward to coming and joining you soon! |
Ghis
Joined 02-01-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, 20 January, 2007 - 11:26 am: | |
Looking forward to the second and spreading the word. |
Kirsten
Joined 11-01-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, 20 January, 2007 - 10:48 pm: | |
I also want to echo the general consensus- Can't wait for your new venture to open. It's just what the area needs and the decor looks great. You def got the name right btw.
I'm a nutritionist practicing in HOP, so if you ever need any advice on menus in the future, let me know! |
Laura
Joined 19-07-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, 25 January, 2007 - 01:04 pm: | |
I love watching people walking their dogs peer in through the windows.. they're probably thinking that it looks a bit different to what they remember! Any clues on whether you'll be open before the 2nd for a sneaky preview? |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, 25 January, 2007 - 01:28 pm: | |
Probably.... will know more tomorrow when we are expecting essential work to the utilities to be completed. Will post at the weekend and let you know! |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, 26 January, 2007 - 01:57 pm: | |
First beer order done yesterday. Alas the following previously-listed items will not be available to us initially:
Addlestones (have to have strongbow for one keg as they paid for the equipment!)
Weston's Scrumpy
Poretti
Tooheys New
TsingTao
I hope that this doesn't cause anyone too much disappointment. I will try to order all these items again next week. Everything else is being delivered in a few days. |
Jbird
Joined 13-02-2006
| | Posted on Friday, 26 January, 2007 - 06:18 pm: | |
Jamie - I came by today and looked through the window. It looks ACE! I'M SO EXCITED!!
By the way - looks like the lease is up on Bar Equal. Get in there my son. Then I can have a pint on the way from the station to The Honor Oak. |
Foolsgold
Joined 12-11-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, 27 January, 2007 - 08:12 pm: | |
Jamie,
Went past today, place is looking great and once again I'm looking forward to sampling your hospitality! The Honor Oak looks destined to be my new local! Any news on a preview pint this week before the grand opening?
Also, I noticed that the old Bengal Baburche on the corner of Brockley Rise and Stanstead has a sign on there saying it is to be redeveloped as a wine bar, subject to licence etc... wondered if you'd heard about this? |
Robwinton
Joined 07-06-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, 28 January, 2007 - 12:06 am: | |
Another threatened wine bar???
Aceri. Baburche. ... From famine to feast!!
OK, let's see what *really* happens. Jamie and Jason at Tapastry are the only ones who have put their money where their mouth is and actually opened! |
Simod_the_bod
Joined 28-11-2006
| | Posted on Monday, 29 January, 2007 - 01:44 pm: | |
Was wondering if anyone else has trouble accessing the pub's website?
The computers at work can't boot it up, and the computers at the T'internet shop have problems as well, and unfortunatley I have yet to join the home broadband revolution (Boo Hoo).
Jamie, any chance of the pub opening by wednesday? I had a cheeky walk past on sunday, and it looked pretty ready for business. So much so that I was practically licking the windows!
My spies tell me that you were receiving more deliveries this morning. It reminds me of the lead up to xmas! Can't wait until friday - its not fair.... |
Sherwood
Joined 30-03-2005
| | Posted on Monday, 29 January, 2007 - 02:07 pm: | |
I cannot get the website at work.
I think it needs some more software, which I am not allowed to download at work.
Simon, do you get this website:
http://thehonoroak.com/NeedFlash.html |
Simod_the_bod
Joined 28-11-2006
| | Posted on Monday, 29 January, 2007 - 02:15 pm: | |
Yep, thats the one I get at the T'internet shop.
The one from work just has a pure blank screen and freezes.
I tried downloading Flash at the cafe but it didnt seem to make a difference. |
Laura
Joined 19-07-2006
| | Posted on Monday, 29 January, 2007 - 02:37 pm: | |
I've found it downloads ok on Internet Explorer but not completely using Firefox - and I've got the Flash plug-in for both.
Deary me, this is going to turn into a geek post.
Jamie - open up! I'll bring me own beer if necessary. |
Andy
Joined 23-02-2005
| | Posted on Monday, 29 January, 2007 - 02:43 pm: | |
Another slight issue with the website is the fact that it keeps you there. The back button doesn't work. Index.htm obviously immediately loads something else so that by pressing back, it just redirects again. Pedantic? Geeky? Moi? |
Simod_the_bod
Joined 28-11-2006
| | Posted on Monday, 29 January, 2007 - 02:49 pm: | |
Thanks for the advice Laura. The internet cafe was running on Explorer but to no avail. Thanks anyway.
I second the latter. Considering its going to be no smoking, can I suggest we start a new phenomenon down the Honor Oak - Ponce a Pint!
Starting with yours Laura! |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Monday, 29 January, 2007 - 04:24 pm: | |
The website does require flash player 7 to be installed. If that's been done it should work, although all browsers are slightly different (if I view it in Firefox, for example, it aligns to the left when in fact it should be centred).
index.html detects whether your computer has flash installed and diverts either to the site's content or to a page suggesting you download flash. If you hold down your mouse button on the back button, you should get a pull-down menu which allows you to go back to the page before index.html or the page before that etc etc.
This morning's delivery was beer. As it's the first delivery, we can't use it yet and some engineers should be coming tomorrow to commission the beer and coke gun etc. We're still waiting on confirmed delivery dates for spirits and glassware, wine is coming tomorrow.
It is unlikely that we will be open until Thursday evening at earliest as although the bar looks almost ready, there's a lot left to be done behind the scenes! Also we are unable to do full food service before Saturday as we are waiting on a visit from the electricity board.
Will keep you posted. |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, 01 February, 2007 - 07:39 pm: | |
Dear all,
Would anyone who has not received an invitation please accept my sincere apologies - we simply have not had time to send them all, and an email version will follow later tonight.
The bad news is, we will be out of power for several hours tomorrow afternoon as the last work to the pub's electricity supply is completed. Unfortunately this means that the kitchen will be out of action and we won't be able to deliver the buffet we had hoped, although we will still do some snacks (including cheese and pineapple!). So please eat before you come!
The good news is that because we're letting you all down a bit on that we've decided to offer 20% off all drinks *all night* to say sorry. So please still come!
The other good news is that we are going to open to friends and family - and any of you who are at a loose end - from 8.30 tonight. We'll be practising making drinks and checking things work, so if anyone wants to come and buy a pint so as we can check it comes out ok, you're very welcome to do so!
Best wishes,
Jamie |
Ghis
Joined 02-01-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, 01 February, 2007 - 09:23 pm: | |
Bah, food is over rated. We will be there! |
Rob
Joined 23-01-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, 01 February, 2007 - 11:22 pm: | |
Popped in this evening. Fantastic pub. Well done. I wish you all the very best success. |
Simod_the_bod
Joined 28-11-2006
| | Posted on Friday, 02 February, 2007 - 09:05 am: | |
****** THE HONOR OAK'S 1ST REVIEW ******
Me and my neighbour Dave passed by at 8 last night with the fiendish plan to press our noses against the window until someone let us in. (We didnt know about the 8.30 invite).
Luckily we arrived at the same time as Jamie and the gang. Must be destiny.Thankfully they took pity on us and let us in - SUCCESS!
So officially we were the first people in the pub!
Nah nah na na nah! :0)
Jamie gave us a guided tour of the premises. There are plenty of tables and chairs, leather sofas and a great corner with some sofas by a rather attractive Log burner (I think that spot is going to be everyone's favourite but I've bagged it first, so there)!
As you follow the 'L' shaped bar around the corner - which is very well stocked by the way, you come to the rear courtyard. This is going to be great in the summer, esp for Barbies.
We also got a small cheeky 1st peek of the function room which is still having the final touches added. This is going to be a really good intimate area for the various acts planned, mark my words.
The music was an eclectic mix of chill, jazz, well everything generally, and provided a relaxed and warm vibe.
Most importantly, the bar was very well presented and stocked and all drinks served with a smile and chat, and there were plenty of them.
All the team down there and were extremely friendly. We got chatting to an older couple who had been living in the area for many years, with many stories. It really was a great night and we felt that we made some great new friends.
We had quite a few toasts with the team to their burgeoning success. (Thanks James, that Sambuca finished me off by the way).
When we finally left - and it was a wrench, we stumbled across the road into the kebab for Cheesey Chips! What a great end to a great night.
So heres one more toast to all you guys (Jamie, James, Alex, Laura, Varity, Bobby, Eshaw, Tim. Sorry if i've missed anyone, but not bad going considering how much I had to drink, I'm sure you'll agree).
I wish you all the very best, and heres to a great new local. Believe the hype!
Cheers
hic! |
Laura
Joined 19-07-2006
| | Posted on Friday, 02 February, 2007 - 10:02 am: | |
I'll be there as long as the cheese and pineapple are!
Very exciting review, and really looking forward to going along tonight.
Hurray! |
Haylands
Joined 29-09-2006
| | Posted on Friday, 02 February, 2007 - 11:42 am: | |
Looking forward to this evening too. Does anyone know what time they start serving at Tapestry? Jason are you there? |
Mattg
Joined 17-10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, 02 February, 2007 - 01:23 pm: | |
oops - do I need an invite of some sort to come along tonight? |
Robwinton
Joined 07-06-2006
| | Posted on Friday, 02 February, 2007 - 04:21 pm: | |
Tapastry opens around 5 I think - wel, I think that is what Jason said when we went there on the FHS pub crawl anyway and some memories are fuzzier than others. |
Haylands
Joined 29-09-2006
| | Posted on Friday, 02 February, 2007 - 04:58 pm: | |
cheers Rob. |
Genica
Joined 10-10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, 02 February, 2007 - 08:33 pm: | |
Yes! At last, after 15 years of waiting, I now can lay claim to a damn decent local! Just spent a very enjoyable hour imbibing some rather decent alcohol and want to say a huge well done to all you guys. Thoroughly looking forward to getting more familiar...
Sunday roast here I come x |
Michael
Joined 04-03-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, 03 February, 2007 - 12:03 am: | |
Well done for a great opening night. I really didn't expect it to be quite so busy but it was a superb turn out. I look forward to many more trips to my new local. |
Robwinton
Joined 07-06-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, 03 February, 2007 - 07:10 pm: | |
Must say the same.
It was incredibly busy and apparently other than their own site and the poster in the window, this site was the only communication they did, so "we done good".
Thanks to Jamie et al. for a great evening and a wonderful place. Just as well you weren't serving food last night as it was so busy none of us could have got to it!
Two questions:
1. When can we have one or two more wines available by the glass?
2. How late is your licence? I gather the party went on rather late into the night on Friday. |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, 03 February, 2007 - 11:31 pm: | |
Dear all,
Thanks so much to all of you for having helped us get up and running, and especially those who have popped in.
To some extent I must apologise for the busy-ness so far - we were absolutely stormed on Friday and at times tonight and struggled to cope. We're also running low on certain items and need to stock up desperately - so sorry if you're visiting us tomorrow and we haven't got everything you want.
Sunday lunch is very much on though, for info the menu tomorrow is as follows:
ROAST RIB OF BEEF WITH YORKSHIRE PUDDING
£8.95
ROAST CHICKEN WITH A SAGE, LEMON & ONION STUFFING
£8.95
LAMB SHANK WITH RED WINE & MINT GRAVY
£8.95
POTATO, SWEET ONION & CHEESE PIE
£7.95
All served with roast potatoes with a selection of vegetables
Selection of desserts also available
Served from 12.30pm for as long as we are able to cope with demand!
Rob, in answer to your questions:
1) Later next week, I have been quite taken aback by the amount of wine sold and if it continues to move at anything like this pace I'm happy to increase the by-the-glass offer. Do you have any specific requests?
2) We are licenced until 12am Monday - Wednesday and 1am Thursday - Sunday, but intend only to use the extra hour on Fridays and Saturdays. Last night we had a special extension for the opening and did not close until 2. I do hope we didn't disturb anyone too much.
Thanks again, and I look forward to meeting more of you in the coming weeks.
James |
Laura
Joined 19-07-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, 04 February, 2007 - 01:40 pm: | |
Opening night was fantastic! Was thinking about Sunday roast, but may let you catch your breath - I'm sure you'll be inundated again!
Looking forward to spending lots of happy times in your beautiful pub. Thank you! |
Fhssecretary
Joined 12-10-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, 04 February, 2007 - 08:34 pm: | |
Will add an endorsement. Had food on Sunday, was v good. Surprisingly assured two days in!
This place has had a serious amount of money spent on it and is unusually convincing for this area, the land of the "I'll have a go (and do it half-heartedly)" school of business start-ups that seems to prevail round these parts for some reason. A good job has been done and the landlords deserve great credit, especially when one thinks that this nearly ended up as another Brockley Jack. I really felt myself transported to some other part of London. Some of you won't like this I guess but while I don't want the area to turn into Clapham a little niceness is long overdue. The old places are still there for those who disagree and it is also worth noting that there was a mixed crowd in attendance with organic trophy children and tendy specs strictly optional.
The main risk for this place is going to be that it becomes a victim of its own success - they had sold out of most their stock already!
With the Dartmouth now thriving (rammed even midweek from recent observation) then there is room for another nice place. Long may they both prosper. |
Mish
Joined 05-11-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, 04 February, 2007 - 09:31 pm: | |
Went in for Sunday lunch today - WOW! The food and service was excellent, hope you manage to keep it up.
So pleased to finally have a good local. I also loved how family friendly it was (the books are a great touch!) but it didn't seem to alienate those customers without children. Any chance of doing children sized meals?! |
Simod_the_bod
Joined 28-11-2006
| | Posted on Monday, 05 February, 2007 - 08:54 am: | |
After Thurdsay's sneak preview, I invited some of my long distance friends down for the opening night! And what a night by the way! They now have no excuse to ever visit me again. Guys you have singlehandedly saved my social life!!!!
The function room was fantastic, and I really enjoyed a little boogie at the end to finish off what was a tremendous opening night! (More of the same please. And I dig the old St Germains sign at the back, it looks superb).
Now that I'm totally smitten with the place, I even popped in after the theatre on saturday night. And god bless my soul...... they were even playing some Northern soul! Got speaking with a few other people in there, and we think it would be great if you had a Northern Soul night in the back!
As ever, I'm totally overwhelmed by how friendly all the staff are and they made my lady friend very welcome (Thanks for the Port James, it did the trick! Wink wink, nudge nudge :0)
To anyone who has not yet been, you must come down and give this place a try, you won't be disappointed!
Absolutely love it. Love it. Love it.
Only thing is, I've pretty much ran out of money until next pay day. :0(
Any chance of a tab guys? Otherwise, a may have to sell my car..... |
Haylands
Joined 29-09-2006
| | Posted on Monday, 05 February, 2007 - 10:08 am: | |
Well done Jamie, James and Rupert. Friday night was buzzing. The place looks great. I'd like to ditto all the comments above...however, and wait for it, there was one small point. Could you offer wine in a 175ml glass in addition to the more hefty (All Bar One-esque) 250ml? Drinking white wine from a 250ml before it all turns warm, requires a certain amount of speed drinking and can make you rather drunk. One wouldn't like to think that we we're being socially responsible!! |
Liz
Joined 26-04-2006
| | Posted on Monday, 05 February, 2007 - 11:41 am: | |
I feel as though I'm missing out here. I was not there on opening night or for Sunday lunch. However, this was because of small child. So, Jamie, are you open weekdays daytime for civilised coffee for parents with small (well-behaved) children? |
Robwinton
Joined 07-06-2006
| | Posted on Monday, 05 February, 2007 - 12:14 pm: | |
According to the site they are open daily from 10:00 (lunch 12:00-15:00) so I assume so. I popped in on Sunday and it was well populated by children (well behaved or not) so they do seem to be child friendly.
Planning on going for lunch today, but by the sounds of it they may have nothing left to sell unless the deliveries have arrived this morning! |
Pat
Joined 12-11-2006
| | Posted on Monday, 05 February, 2007 - 12:23 pm: | |
I would also like to add to Haylands' request for wines in a 175ml glass - the 250 ml glasses hold a third of a bottle so I can only drink one of them. Can we have 175 ml glasses as well please - I would in fact drink more then (hence spend more in your lovely new pub) as I can manage two of those! And more wines by the glass please.
Apart from this, was very nice when I dropped by last night for one glass of wine. |
Sherwood
Joined 30-03-2005
| | Posted on Monday, 05 February, 2007 - 01:20 pm: | |
Jamie,
The place looks great (from the outside). |
Tersie
Joined 04-02-2007
| | Posted on Monday, 05 February, 2007 - 02:29 pm: | |
Hi All - I popped into the bar yesterday and was pleasantly surprised. It is great to have another place to go to instead of having to trek to Lordship lane....I def agree with the wine situ. There needs to be more of a selection and at both sizes. A nice NZ or chilian sav blanc and an italian Pino would be nice. I was in the bar till about 9.00 and had just one picky comment. Am I the only one that thinks the bar is too bright?? bit of an overload on lighting that does not need to be there...less is more as they say and candles are far more atmospheric. Overall well done and am looking forward to visting again once stock has been replensished ;-)
Cheers
Tersie |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Monday, 05 February, 2007 - 03:24 pm: | |
Dear all,
Thank you once again for all the comments and compliments!
Monday - Friday we will only be open from 12 this week as we catch up in terms of stock and cleaning!
I will order a 175ml wine measure and put small glasses on the tills as soon as it arrives.
Best wishes,
Jamie |
Grego
Joined 26-01-2007
| | Posted on Monday, 05 February, 2007 - 05:45 pm: | |
Jamie et al my wife and I visited your gaff on Saturday night and were very very impressed. The decor etc is great, but it's the 'feel' of the place we were really taken by. You've done a fantastic job and we are delighted to have a decent local quite literally around the corner.
All the very best of luck with the business, we shall definitely be seeing you soon. |
Tersie
Joined 04-02-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, 06 February, 2007 - 09:44 am: | |
Hi Jamie and all,
Have you ever heard of Taste London? www.tastelondon.co.uk via time out guide (same people) it is a good way to market any bar / restuarant. You sign up and offer members 241 deals on food or 50% off the total food bill(for 1st visit or for the year) They then market the bar, apparently it is a good way of getting alot of repeat business and visibility. For those of you who are foodies check it out, you can join up for £49 for the year but you get a free time out bar and restaurant guide and all the discounts on food...I have used mine loads already!!
Cheers
Tersie |
Ghis
Joined 02-01-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, 06 February, 2007 - 09:13 pm: | |
Friday was great! Well done guys! Love the decor too! |
Hopjim
Joined 01-09-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, 08 February, 2007 - 09:41 pm: | |
Yep, we went in on opening night..you must have been very happy...it was heaving, it great inside...WELL DONE!!! |
Simod_the_bod
Joined 28-11-2006
| | Posted on Friday, 09 February, 2007 - 09:26 am: | |
Must agree with Grego regarding the feel of the place.
I 've been in here most evenings with different friends, trying to convert them to this side of the borough.
On tuesday, I managed to persuade a few of my lady friends to give their usual Lordship Lane pub/eateries a miss and try out our local.
We went for a round of traditional sausage 'n' mash. And I must say we were not disappointed! The mash was light and creamy, the gravy nice and thick, and the sausage tasted so good, I suspect the Chef may have cut off one of Bernard Matthew's fingers and stuck it in the pan! mmmmm yum yum
We then tried the whole selection of cheesecakes with ice-cream! Oh, I so wish I had'nt!
Each and everyone was a little slice of heaven! Next time I seriously don't think I could choose one over another! Reminds me a bit like Miss World, do I go for the blonde or the dark complexion? Then again, I quite like the red head!
Oh well, I guess I'll just have to have them all then!
We were all very impressed with the food, and the girls actually thought it was better than those at Lordship Lane! Anyhow, I digress.
The most important and telling comment they did make, was that whilst we were waiting for our food, they said how nice they thought the bar was. And quite bizzarely but crucially, how once you were eating your food, it didnt feel like you were eating in a pub! Strange but true. SUCCESS!
So there you have it folks. A great place to eat and drink!
Oh dear. There goes my two New Years resolutions! |
Mattg
Joined 17-10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, 09 February, 2007 - 07:36 pm: | |
We went for lunch on Wednesday. (I was using the snow as an excuse to 'work' from home!) We also took our 1yr old. In answer to Liz's question above, children are clearly welcome and during the day, the place feels rather less 'bar' like and more like a chilled place for a drink / nice meal / coffee / whatever. Reminded me of some of the nice places in Greenwich. There were a couple of other pushchairs and a couple of small people being very well behaved!
Oh, and I can thoroughly recommend the burger and the fishcakes. Both were fantastic.
So top marks as a daytime venue too!
Matt |
Liz
Joined 26-04-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, 10 February, 2007 - 09:55 am: | |
That's good to know, thanks Mattg. And just to be picky, were there high chairs and baby changing facilities? I can live without both but it makes life a whole lot easier if they're there. |
Les
Joined 28-01-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, 11 February, 2007 - 10:40 pm: | |
Went for Sunday lunch today. The food, drink and ambience was excellent. Very impressed with the quality, the staff and value for money. The place was buzzing though so I would recommend booking for food.
Liz - don't think there are changing areas, the toilets are quite small. But the (red leather) sofas are good for eating with toddlers. |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, 11 February, 2007 - 10:49 pm: | |
Hi all, there's a baby change in the disabled toilet - please ask for the key.
High chairs are on order but not with us yet, apologies... they are coming though! Hopefully they will be delivered with the sign for the baby change!
Best wishes,
James |
Owen0910
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, 14 February, 2007 - 10:37 am: | |
Just wanted to say what a great addition to the area the Honor Oak has proved to be.
I have eaten there a twice already and it has been very good both times. One suggestion I have and this is in no way intended to be a criticism is to perhaps have some kind of sharing platters which people can order while drinking if they dont necessarily want a full meal. Just a thought.
Keep up the good work. |
Gemma
Joined 05-11-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, 14 February, 2007 - 10:32 pm: | |
I also want to say how great it is to have The Honor Oak. We finally have the local we've wanted since we moved here.
Also agree with Owen that platters/bar food would be a good addition. Regarding table service it is a great idea but maybe it is easier for people to order at the bar - both times I've eaten the waitress has been rushed off her feet.
Hope the Honor Oak continues to do well |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, 14 February, 2007 - 10:49 pm: | |
Hi Owen & Gemma,
Thanks - a valid point and we will look to do some platters etc.
The table service wasn't intended to be a better service so much as a way of addressing the difficulties we had had keeping track of food orders in the first week or so. I realise that there can be a delay when it's busy, and as time goes on hopefully we will learn the busier periods and be able to put more people on - but the bar orders really were going astray and things have worked a lot more smoothly of late.
Come and say hello when you're next in .
Cheers,
James |
Liz
Joined 26-04-2006
| | Posted on Friday, 16 February, 2007 - 01:15 pm: | |
At last! I am no longer the only person in SE23 who hasn't visited The Honor Oak.
I went there yesterday afternoon with my 18 mth old daughter and - at the risk of sounding like everyone else - I was really impressed. I was surprised how busy it was and how mixed the clientele were. There was a group of Mums with very young babies as well as couples of all ages and other people just enjoying a quiet afternoon drink with the papers. I felt very welcome with a toddler but, at the same time, it didn't feel like a creche which so many specifically child-friendly places do. And my little girl loved the selection of pop-up books! She was also very taken with the friendly staff. And the baby changing facilities were perfect.
So all in all, we were both very happy and will be back. |
Laura
Joined 19-07-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, 18 February, 2007 - 04:28 pm: | |
I've been in quite a lot in the evenings recently and love this place more and more. Great food, wonderful vibe, lovely wine selection. One thing I've noticed is that there are a lot of women at the pub - more so than I usually see in pubs. My friends (female) have all said what a lovely, friendly, warm atmosphere the pub is and how comfortable they feel being there. And they have all said what a huge difference it makes that hardly anyone smokes in the pub, apart from the odd bright spark who doesn't notice it's non-smoking or who has decided that they're excepted (and we're all too jolly stiff-upper-lipped to say anything).
I still can't believe we've got such a lovely local! Thanks again. |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, 21 February, 2007 - 08:08 pm: | |
Apologies if you've already received an email to this effect, but we're having a wine tasting evening on 7th March. More details and booking button at http;//www.thehonoroak.com!
James |
Tapastry
Joined 10-09-2006
| | Posted on Monday, 26 February, 2007 - 12:47 am: | |
popped in for lunch on friday...
guess i might as well ego boost like everyone else...
really enjoyed my bangers....
must add katie was a great host...
will catch up soon jamie about linking web sites
long may honor oak keep gentrifying....
jason |
Brian
Joined 18-04-2005
| | Posted on Monday, 26 February, 2007 - 12:53 pm: | |
I missed the announcement of the name change to
the Honour Oak. Probably a good thing as St G had bad reputation
The actual oak that was honoured by QE1 is still someway from the Pub. |
Vipes
Joined 10-10-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, 27 February, 2007 - 01:34 pm: | |
Lovely roast on Sunday. More high chairs would be good. |
Pat
Joined 12-11-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, 07 March, 2007 - 12:12 pm: | |
Just to add that we ate here for the first time last night, great to see it's still busy in the evenings, but no problem getting a table early on. Burger and steak both great, lovely salad accompanying the chips! Have stopped drinking wine here though until the smaller glasses are in - still only had the 250ml glasses last time I asked, it's too much for me in one sitting! |
Brian
Joined 18-04-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, 07 March, 2007 - 12:41 pm: | |
Hi Pat
Why do you know ask them to fill the glass and charge you a reduced price |
Pat
Joined 12-11-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, 07 March, 2007 - 01:16 pm: | |
a special "lightweight" rate for not being able to drink it all? |
Haylands
Joined 29-09-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, 07 March, 2007 - 01:33 pm: | |
Or perhaps a socially responsible rate for being considerate? |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, 07 March, 2007 - 04:42 pm: | |
The 175ml wine measure is still on back order and I have had an angry telephone rant about it this morning. Please accept my continuing apologies. I have looked elsewhere and will continue to do so this afternoon.
There was no 'socially irresponsible' intention behind only ordering 250ml wine glasses - it was very specifically that we wanted to be able to offer a choice of wines by the glass without having to risk sacrificing the quality of the wine or 'surcharge' for by-the glass purchases - unlike very many pubs there is no financial incentive to 'buy the bottle' here.
On a different, but related note, I am pleased to say that further to much earlier requests, we will increase the number of wines available by the glass to nine next week.
The high chairs finally arrived on Tuesday, have already been enjoyed (or not) by a number of children, and are available on a first-come-first-served basis. We have two at the moment but will order another in due course if this should prove to be insufficient.
Best wishes,
James |
Haylands
Joined 29-09-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, 08 March, 2007 - 09:48 am: | |
Hi Jamie, i was only joshing. I know you guys are doing everything you can to accommodate SE23's various needs. |
Robwinton
Joined 07-06-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, 08 March, 2007 - 10:01 am: | |
Hurrah for more wines by the glass!
And thanks for sorting out the smaller measure. There's always the incentive to experiment with different wines if you can have a smaller measure and maybe try two glasses instead one bucket/250ml
Anyone go to the wine tasting evening recently? |
Gemma
Joined 05-11-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, 08 March, 2007 - 11:20 am: | |
I went to the wine tasting last night and it was very enjoyable. We had a nice selection of red wines some of which are sold in the Honor Oak. Good fun and learnt a bit about wine too. Will be back for white wine tasting!! |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, 08 March, 2007 - 11:26 am: | |
No, it's (175ml measures) a perfectly valid request and I'm just a bit ashamed that it's taking us so long to sort it out!
Glad you had fun, Gemma - hopefully the next night will be one that I can attend properly myself! |
Dave
Joined 11-01-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, 08 March, 2007 - 12:02 pm: | |
At risk of sounding like a member of the fan club, I can also say that I enjoyed the wine-tasting. Was a shame that the function room was out of action, but the event itself was actually really good - entertaining, informal and unpretentious.
Some interesting wines to taste - the German Pinot Noir was a real surprise - good information and marshalling from Robin, and some great cheese at the end. Really good mix of people as well.
Please keep it up with more events like this. |
Ghis
Joined 02-01-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, 08 March, 2007 - 12:56 pm: | |
When is the white wine tasting? We had a birthday party to go to last night but would love to come for the white wine version. |
Simod_the_bod
Joined 28-11-2006
| | Posted on Friday, 09 March, 2007 - 09:07 am: | |
I am more than happy to declare myself a fully fledged member of the Honor Oak's fan club. Infact I'm putting myself forward as its Life President!
100% agree with Dave and Gemma, the Wine tasting evening was a triumph! A really good mix of people and I'm sure I speak for us all, had a jolly good time! Robin was a fantastic host and ooozed boyish enthusiasm that rubbed off on us all. I will definatley be back for the white wine, port, vodka, beer, rum tasting...... :0)
Upon sitting at the table with my lady friend Emily, my sidekick Dave and his girlfriend Rebecca, we were presented with two red wines (of the same variety)at a time. Robin talked through various interesting facts and then invited us to make notes on the wine's colour, density etc followed by further descriptive notes on smell and taste, followed by a group discussion.
We all had a little competition on who could come up with the best words, in which I lost miserably to Emily. (Yes, I am a hater). I could only manage to make a berk of myself in front of the group by shouting out that the German Pinot Noir smelt of boiled cauliflower! Oh dear.
Throughout the night, Dave, a powerhouse of descriptive notes earlier on, flagged towards the end. By wines 9 & 10 he could only manage to write 'I'm drunk' on his paper.' Shame on you.
This nicely leads on to perhaps the most important dilemma of wine tasting.
Do you spit or swallow...... |
Sherwood
Joined 30-03-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, 10 March, 2007 - 11:29 pm: | |
Swallow every time. Do not waste good alcohol! |
Quackquaffer
Joined 10-03-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, 11 March, 2007 - 06:08 pm: | |
Thanks to everyone who came along to the wine tasting on Wednesday night. We couldn't have asked for a more charming bunch for our inaugural evening of oeonology.
It was a shame that perhaps you couldn't always hear what each other had to say about the wines - 'boiled cauliflower', 'rotting compost', 'burnt', 'smells like Calpol' - all seemed pretty astute to me.
I doubt whether many of us would have put money on a German red being one of the stars of the night. Bear in mind that this was atypical of a German Pinot Noir in that 2003 was very hot and gave super ripe fruit and loads of alcohol. It was delicious. Other years are also delicious but in a different way: crisper, fresher, juicier.
Thanks again - look out for the white wine evening - date to be confirmed.
Robin |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, 13 March, 2007 - 02:34 pm: | |
The provisional date for white wine tasting is 4th April. More details will follow once things are confirmed.
Best wishes,
James |
Roz
Joined 17-03-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, 15 March, 2007 - 09:58 pm: | |
Went there tonight for the first time for a drink and a meal- very pleasant experience. Only comment is that it would be nice to have a salad option for both starter and main course, but maybe this will appear more when the weather gets warmer. Well done, James and Jamie. |
Tersie
Joined 04-02-2007
| | Posted on Monday, 19 March, 2007 - 11:52 pm: | |
Hi Jamie, As much as I really like the Honor Oak (you and your team have done a fab job!)me and some friends who are new to the area popped in last Sat PM hoping for afew nice chilled bottles wines and food but we ended up walking straight out and headed to Lordship Lane. Although I understand you are child friendly it was more like a creche at 6.00pm. I am not meaning to offend you or any of the families that really enjoy using the pub (and rightly so) but for others who want a more chilled atmosphere without kids running around it is not ideal. I would suggest either a separate area where families can enjoy and a child free area where other groups can meet up to also enjoy what the pub has to offer. On the other hand maybe there should be a clearly defined curfew for families. The concern I and others have is that you may end up alienating other people who also have money to spend in a decent local in the early evenings. |
Laura
Joined 19-07-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, 20 March, 2007 - 08:50 am: | |
Agree with Tersie - this has happened to me on a couple of occasions now. I keep going back (because I love the place!) but I'm reluctant to meet up with friends there any earlier than 8pm for the same reasons Tersie describes. I'm sure there must be an acceptable compromise - this is a great pub, after all! |
Pvp
Joined 17-03-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, 20 March, 2007 - 11:34 am: | |
I think somewhere like the Greyhound in Dulwich has the balance right - very clearly defined areas. |
Broadbeanster
Joined 12-02-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, 20 March, 2007 - 12:33 pm: | |
I agree... I think there is always a place for families in local pubs - the Dulwich Woodhouse is a great example - but when I finish work in the evening I quite like a drink without kids running around or whizzing past on those wheelie shoes which was the case the last time we were in the HO... If the HO isn't big enough for clearly defined areas - both the Greyhound and Dulwich Woodhouse are huge - then maybe a curfew would be the best compromise? |
Tersie
Joined 04-02-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, 20 March, 2007 - 12:34 pm: | |
Hi Laura / PVP,
I am in full agreement that it is only worth going to the bar much later on to avoid this environment, which is a shame. I have also gone to the Greyhound and The Bishop and it seems to be more defined in terms of areas and times and the balence is better. Jamie it would be great to get your feedback on this as we would love to have a compromise. I have not seen your other areas in the bar but maybe these could be utilised?
Cheers! |
Michael
Joined 04-03-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, 20 March, 2007 - 01:54 pm: | |
I suspect part of the problem is families like non-smoking environments and Honor Oak provides such an environment. Come July Honor Oak will no longer be unique and families may go to other pubs in the area.
I don't think the answer is to impose a curfew, if enough non-families start drinking the families will soon leave, so by staying it should not be long before the others get up and leave - majority rule. In this way market forces mean there is no need for any type of curfew. |
Brian
Joined 18-04-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, 20 March, 2007 - 02:04 pm: | |
children are fine in pubs if
1. They are in a non bar area.
2. They are well behaved
3. Under strict supervision
It has always surprised me that often so called middle class parents have less control over their off spring than the so called working class parents. |
Pvp
Joined 17-03-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, 20 March, 2007 - 02:16 pm: | |
But one must not inhibit dear Tarquin's development.... |
Dotcom
Joined 21-04-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, 20 March, 2007 - 02:38 pm: | |
Tarquin would surely benefit from self expression. |
Jane2
Joined 24-01-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, 21 March, 2007 - 03:03 pm: | |
It always surprises me that in this country children are seen as such a nuisance and need to be segregated off away from adults - they're not aliens. In bars in France, Spain etc its quite normal for children to go out and eat with their parents. I agree that children should be well-behaved and not left to run riot, but they aren't going to learn good behaviour if they are only allowed to eat in Mcdonalds! |
Laura
Joined 19-07-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, 21 March, 2007 - 03:10 pm: | |
Bit of generalisation there I think. There's lots of bars and pubs where children are welcomed in the UK - the Honor Oak is one of them. And conversely when I've holidayed and worked in Spain and France I've been to a lot of bars where children are no-where to be seen!
I do think that good behaviour is the key - when I've taken my neices and nephews out with me in the past, I've not enjoyed myself when they've been shouting/whining/running around, so god only knows how other people felt about it. Basically - if it's not acceptable behaviour (in that environment) from an adult, why should it be acceptable from a younger person? |
Elizabeth25
Joined 04-03-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, 21 March, 2007 - 04:30 pm: | |
You do get some people who dislike children--well behaved or otherwise. My son has mis-behaved in public (which usually results in me packing up and heading home) but more often than not, he has also behaved very well in public. I agree with Jane2, good behaviour is learned by getting used to eating in public and copying how adults act (sitting at the table, not screaming etc.)
An 8:00 pm curfew is perfectly reasonable for young children. I am sure most parents would not object to that type of restriction.
However, there are some people (purely experienced-based observances) who get extremely huffy whenever a pram comes into view in a resturant or a pub--even when it containes a sleeping baby making no sound.
We should be more tolerant of everyone who patronises pubs and resturants. That means parents should control children who are bothering other customers--and likewise, child-less groups and individuals should accept children are allowed to venture out in mixed-aged establishments from time to time.
Restricted areas are not the answer. Curfews are more reasonable. |
Jane2
Joined 24-01-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, 21 March, 2007 - 04:33 pm: | |
My response wasn't meant completely seriously, in the spirit of the previous posts... |
Jane2
Joined 24-01-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, 21 March, 2007 - 04:40 pm: | |
Sorry Elizabeth we cross-posted that wasn't in response to you! |
Tersie
Joined 04-02-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, 21 March, 2007 - 05:27 pm: | |
Hi Jane2 and Elizebeth and all. Sorry it looks like I have opened a can a worms here by starting this particular strand of Honor Oak thread! Anyway I agree with what you are saying that childen need to learn to respect environments and behave when in mixed age environments and as I stated earlier in the thread of course families should fully enjoy the pub. The reason I made a point in the first place is because the HO seems to be family friendly in the day and early evening, which is fine but I have noticed that families with kids are staying later in the bar and the HO is losing some other business due to this fact. It is alienating some people who want to have a childfree drink and environment. I do not think I am wrong in thinking some parents would be included in this group of folk - Elizabeth you mentioned that 8.00pm is a reasonable curfew for children in bars but I have to say I disagree and would say 5.30 or 6 would be more realistic as pretty much 100% of evening trade is made up of adults. But it would be good to get Jamie's thoughts as he would decide on what (if any) boundaries there should be in this respect.
Any more thoughts? |
Roz
Joined 17-03-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, 21 March, 2007 - 09:53 pm: | |
I think the discussion should also take into account the needs of parents who would like to do what ' normal' adults do and go for a drink in the evening with other adults around as well as their kids. Granted that the kids should be supervised and well behaved and not running around screaming as this is not acceptable. Otherwise its a curfew on parents too which may lead to isolation. However as Michael has said, the smoking ban will produce interesting outcomes.
We have family in France and go to stay with them a lot, and it does seem true that French children are better behaved in restaurants and cafes- the kids benefit from greater inclusion. One theory is that French children are better socialised, ie they learn early on how to behave in adult social environments, which is what a pub is, rather than being indulged with toys, games etc as can be the case here. It doesnt hurt for children to learn that pubs are not adventure playgrounds. |
Tersie
Joined 04-02-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, 21 March, 2007 - 11:08 pm: | |
Hi Roz - The points I and others have made are not suggesting that adults cannot go out in the evening for a drink with other adults and kids, the main point is whether a pub is a suitable venue for such outings after a certain hour, whereas family freindly restaurants and cafe's may be better suited for such outings as they are not mainly geared up for selling high volumes of alcohol. I totally agree that the culture on the continent is different to the UK and most families tend to go to cafes and restaurants, not bars. I get the feeling that the lovely HO is trying to be more of a cafe bar in the day and lively bar by night. Indeed when the smoking ban comes in July it might change things and give families more smoke free options. Overall I do not think the points outlined are unreasonable - I think it is more about finding a balance. |
Elizabeth25
Joined 04-03-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, 22 March, 2007 - 09:31 am: | |
How about we compromise on the curfew and say 7:00 pm? :-) However, feedback from Jamie would be good as well. |
Domc
Joined 17-03-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, 22 March, 2007 - 11:10 am: | |
Problem with curfew - what do you do at 7pm? Throw them all out or not serve them or remind them of rules - either one is not a great option for the person who has to do it. |
Elizabeth25
Joined 04-03-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, 22 March, 2007 - 11:48 am: | |
I think it is more about guildlines, than draconian rules. A sign up saying something like "Curfew for young children is 7:00 pm"
But really, this is more about market forces. If The Honor Oak has presented an environment that is comfortable for people with children,and attracts that clientel, than that is what the market dictaes.
(Sorry to Jamie, for discussing what your pub's policies may or may not be. But, in any intellectual discussion, it is easier to comprehend if there is a real world example.)
But I do agree July's smoking ban will change the playing field a bit. |
Sherwood
Joined 30-03-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, 22 March, 2007 - 01:29 pm: | |
I suspect that economics will dictate the policy. If adults do not come in while children are there, the landlord is likely to choose the more profiable clientele. |
Elizabeth25
Joined 04-03-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, 22 March, 2007 - 02:10 pm: | |
Are people with children not profitable clientele? |
Fhssecretary
Joined 12-10-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, 22 March, 2007 - 02:43 pm: | |
They may well drink less |
Laura
Joined 19-07-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, 22 March, 2007 - 02:58 pm: | |
I think both my sisters started drinking more. Especially when the kids hit their "terrible twos". :) |
Sherwood
Joined 30-03-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, 22 March, 2007 - 05:05 pm: | |
I think generally men are the most profitable customers. |
Les
Joined 28-01-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, 22 March, 2007 - 06:58 pm: | |
Nah - men don't eat when they drink. Food is more profitable every time. Bet the Herne makes buck with all the families with kids eating. Much better to make a few quid a dish than a few pence a pint. I know nothing about this business by the way! |
Tersie
Joined 04-02-2007
| | Posted on Friday, 23 March, 2007 - 08:43 am: | |
Hi Les and all,
Wet sales (i.e booze) has the highest mark up overall however a reasonable amount of take will also come from diners too (and it is also used as a tool to get people to have drinks which drives up profit)but there are more overheads related with serving food that have to be taken into account(I have ran bars over the years and this is my experience - maybe others disagree?) Anyway the point is having such a lovely place in the locality is great for everyone all ages and we salute Jamie for all his hard work. I think if the HO were ever to have a curfew it would probably be more in loose terms, this curfew time would allow time for them to prepare for other clients that would use the pub after work and onwards into the evening. i.e clearing tables, stocking up, washing, lighting candles....anyway Jamie knows the score on this I am not telling him how to run his business. |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, 23 March, 2007 - 04:44 pm: | |
Dear all,
We have always had a 'curfew' of 8pm for children which is noted on our licence and is made clear to anyone who asks, or indeed comes in with children after about 6pm. We also inform people with children that the children will have to leave if they have not done so by 8pm.
Whilst this discussion has made interesting reading, and I don't think a point has been made which is not valid, to some extent we take the view that we have always wished to have a child-friendly pub, at least during the day, and that there really shouldn't be any reason why children and grown-ups shouldn't co-exist reasonably happily.
We understand that those people wishing to turn up at 12pm every day and drink three pints of Stella an hour until close may feel uncomfortable doing so when surrounded by children - but equally this has never been the clientele we have aimed to attract, nor that I gather would apply or appeal to the majority of you. Arguably, the fact that children are not appealing to this type of drinker is no bad thing for everyone else!
Civilised drinking should not be interrupted by well-behaved children, and it is maybe here that we have the true issue- namely that a minority of people have perhaps begun to take our attempts to offer a family-friendly pub for granted. In the first weeks, although we are aware that some people voiced concerns about the admission of children at all, there were few (if any) actual complaints about their presence. Equally, then people were asking if children were permitted within the pub, and when told that they were, ensuring that they remained seated, keeping them entertained, and in the case of young children, taking them outside if they started to disturb others.
In the last couple of weeks, we have had a couple of issues with children being allowed to quite literally run around whilst their parents drank and ate, apparently oblivious to it.
Our policy, perhaps clarified here for the first time, is that we wish to have a family-friendly pub. We don't have much time for objections against the principle of children being in the pub during the day (when people are mainly eating or drinking coffee) but equally we have little tolerance for parents who do not respect those people without children enough to appreciate that the majority visiting us wish to interact only with eachother and a pint of lager; not someone else's kids. We think it would be a great shame to lose the atmosphere that children and families have contributed to The Honor Oak and have no intention of changing the current child-friendly status. But we will be asking those parents who do not do so of their own accord to treat their children appropriately whilst in this adult environment - not least because aside from the affect on other customers, it is not safe to have children running around a pub unsupervised, nor, fundamentally, is it fair on the children themselves.
As far as the space is concerned, it is difficult to see how the bar could be divided to provide a segregated space for families, and to be honest we do wish to stay rather more on the adult side of the fence, and do not intend to create any sort of creche etc. However with the function room now open, and the beer garden soon to be furnished, we are confident that with the help of the parents who are visiting us there will be enough space to find a middle ground that represents an adult environment which welcomes children without them being too overwhelming.
As far as profits go, Tersie is right that we make far less profit from food than we do drink, as the overheads are very high. But I should clarify that our policy on children, or anything else, is not dictated simply by figures. The Honor Oak, although by no means buying us any holidays this year, appears to be working as a concept. We hope that we need only tweak it to improve it for people, rather than change how we operate based on pounds and percentages. We created the pub based on what we, as local residents, thought would be good for the area rather than what the figures said, and that approach has thankfully - and thanks to many of you - so far served us well. We would rather follow your guidance and our own instincts than try to build the pub around margins... hopefully if we get the pub right at heart, the margins will follow!
Thank you all for your continuing support and advice. If you have any specific problems with children or anything else in future please let one of us know at the time so as we can proacvitely deal with it, and then review the situation (doubtless on this forum) in the coming weeks.
With best wishes,
Jamie, James & Rupert |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, 23 March, 2007 - 04:45 pm: | |
On a completely separate note, you can now book for our next wine tasting on 4th April online at http://www.thehonoroak.com. Robin returns, this time with white wines - try 10 for £12 from 8pm! |
Elizabeth25
Joined 04-03-2005
| | Posted on Friday, 23 March, 2007 - 04:48 pm: | |
Thanks Jamie! |
Tersie
Joined 04-02-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, 24 March, 2007 - 12:36 pm: | |
Hi Jamie, James, Rupert and all.
Good to get some clarification here on what your feelings are as you say the more people are aware of what is acceptable or not the better. I think it is good that this has come to your attention as it is something that needs monitoring on an ongoing basis. At least all will now know that after 8pm is definately a childfree zone and if we come in before this time that points have been taken on board and hopefully parents with kids will ensure the balance is met. I look forward to seeing you soon - think will book for the wine tasting too, sounds good! |
Toffeejim
Joined 27-11-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, 24 March, 2007 - 01:19 pm: | |
I happened to stumble into this place the other night when I unaccountably couldn't get served at my local the Swiss Cottage.
It’s a very odd place. A bar, as opposed to a pub, that happens to be sited in what was a pub and employing a few pub-related themes to disorientate the punters and make them think they might actually be in one. A sort of a virtual reality game.
The first thing that hits you is the wallpaper. This is the best thing about the place and it immediately took me back to the Winchester Club circa 1980, an impression strongly reinforced when I received my beer in an old-fashioned, chunky glass - these days normally to be found only in backwater country villages and the Port Stanley Hotel (my thanks to Trev for the latter).
But any anticipation that I might be about to see Terry and Arthur walk in was swiftly knocked on the head when I noted the sad lack of Hamlets, Castellas or indeed any other kind of smoking material behind the bar.
The choice of beer was further designed to confuse. There were two types available, strong or stronger: a philosophical conundrum for an old-fashioned drinking man like myself. What I really wanted was a normal pint of beer. But clearly this was a test of manliness. Do I admit that really all I want is a normal pint and come across as a jessie or do I take the strong stuff with a knowing nod, drink the one pint and then leave for another pub that sold normal beer? I took the latter course, although not least because the choice of beer was so uninspired: Broadside and Old Speckled Hen (does anybody, anywhere ever order Old Speckled Hen when there is a choice available to them?). The beer was kept adequately, no more.
And then, whilst I was sipping on my pint reflecting on these matters, something else confusing happened. I'd just seen a couple of young women go outside for a cigarette when a staff member came around and put an ashtray on my table. Well this was odd. Unfortunately I didn't have any cigarettes on me and, as well as the lack of cigars behind the bar, couldn't see a cigarette machine in evidence either. A pity because the person who had put out the ashtrays then came round and put a little tea light inside them. A nice touch for those who have forgotten their lighters I thought.
As I say an odd experience. Pub wallpaper and pub glasses but no proper beer. Excellent smoking facilities without any tobacco on sale. Clearly all some form of irony. Perhaps the whole thing is meant to be an organically-based work by a Young British Artist and will reap great plaudits at this year's Turner Prize exhibition. But personally I've always preferred figurative works to Duchamp-inspired surrealism so I think I'll stick to Forest Hill's existing array of honest old-fashioned boozers in future.
One final thought: the music they were playing rather blew their cover. Had the bar had the imagination to put on something a bit more retro-challenging (I'm thinking the Court of the Crimson King, something by Hawkwind or even the Velvet Underground) this might have been enough to keep me guessing. But the fact that it was endlessly derivative and totally unengaging modern nonsense suggested that the Honor Oak is actually just the type of middle-class poseurs palace I suspected it of being all along.
Of course Forest Hill is a diverse community and the young and moneyed middle classes deserve to be catered for as a distinct sub-community within that. Many of them believe this pub gives them just what they want and need. Perhaps it does although, of course, perhaps not – and its just what they think they want and need (and a thread discussing Marx’s thoughts on commodity fetishism or Engels on false consciousness perhaps goes slightly beyond the bounds of this forum).
But what is clear is that it seems to be a case of East Dulwich/Clapham/Islington (take your pick) here we come. |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, 24 March, 2007 - 04:34 pm: | |
Dear ToffeeJim,
I confess to a slight error in this week's ale selection, as I bowed to a number of requests for Old Speckled Hen without considering its strength next to the Broadside - my apologies.
The next ale to be on will be Bombardier, until after St. George's Day, when I think we will revert to the Black Sheep for a while as it is one of my personal favourites and proved rather popular. I will try to post when these changes occur so as you are aware of the state of play here should you again be refused service at your local for some reason.
As I have posted several times before, the ale selection is guided by the people drinking it. If there is something you think would go down well, please let me know and I will happily try it out if it features on the list of beers that I am able to purchase.
Best wishes,
James |
Toffeejim
Joined 27-11-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, 24 March, 2007 - 05:40 pm: | |
James
I doff my cap to so civillised reply to my old-school rant. As you rightly infer I do think that well chosen and well served ale should lie at the very heart of what any bar or pub is about. After all, good beer is one of England's very few claims to gastronomic greatness.
You've mentioned before that you're tied by Punch into a rather limited selection of beers. It's such a shame as it contrasts disappointingly with the decent wine list and bottled Belgian choices you had available. Are you really irrevocably tied to this? My spies tell me that the most excellent management team of the (I'm told) Punch-run Gowlett Arms have been seen in your establishment. They seem to get by this problem somehow and stock a good selection of guest ales.
The real golden chalice though would be for you to stock guest beers from the flourishing microbrewery sector. This would even have old sceptics like me joining the raving crowds. I'm told that many pubco's are now happy to sanction the stocking of microbrewed ale, especially now that doing so has been made so much more practical (and profitable) through the Society of Independent Brewers' Direct Delivery Scheme. Of course, agreement from the area manager is required - but it seems to me that you have an excellent case to make. Surely in a market of increasing diversity this is where the future lies.
I hope you can get somewhere with this. I think it would serve your venture well. |
Pat
Joined 12-11-2006
| | Posted on Monday, 26 March, 2007 - 12:20 pm: | |
And a repeated request for small glasses of wine for those who can't drink a bucket-full, please... |
Evanick
Joined 29-09-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, 29 March, 2007 - 12:24 pm: | |
yes, smaller glasses would be handy. i have no problems obtaining smaller glasses of wine in the newly opened bar near my work in Camberwell.
Also I find music too loud in Honor Oak. It is difficult to have a proper conversation as you have to shout. |
Simod_the_bod
Joined 28-11-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, 29 March, 2007 - 12:45 pm: | |
Got to disagree with you on the last point Evanick.
If anything, for the majority of the early evening it is too low. However, it is understandable as this is the peak time for the servery of food.
I have found that on occasions, thankfully the volume is increased a little after food stops at 9pm, but never enough for me to shout. |
Annie
Joined 27-06-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, 29 March, 2007 - 02:18 pm: | |
On our first visit we walked straight out again as the music was too loud - the second time we went earlier in the evening but then it got turned up so we left again. We would like to give the HO another go so maybe the regulars could suggest a time / day when the music is more in the background please? |
Laura
Joined 19-07-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, 29 March, 2007 - 03:46 pm: | |
In a pub, for me the music counts as too loud if a group of people (say around four or five) can't have a conversation together because they have to shout to be heard above the music in order for everyone to join in.
This has only happened to me once at THO, thank god. Otherwise it turns into a nightclub: which is what a function room is for! |
Brian
Joined 18-04-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, 29 March, 2007 - 04:40 pm: | |
I agree whilst I am not against music in pubs I go in a pub for conversation with friends. If you , or they , have to shout then time to leave.
I have not yet neen to THO so no idea how loud their music is. |
Baggydave
Joined 19-05-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, 29 March, 2007 - 07:22 pm: | |
There are at least nine pubs and two wine bars in SE23. If we don't like the music/beer/food then we have plenty of choice. Jamie has a winning formula but it may not be to everyone's tastes. Why are we trying to run this pub by consensus? If you have a problem lean over the counter and tell him, sure he will welcome this.
Meanwhile if you have a view on what makes the perfect pub revert to my thread. You will find the Moor Park Tavern very quiet. Getting a drink is another issue though....... |
Toffeejim
Joined 27-11-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, 29 March, 2007 - 11:55 pm: | |
11 pubs, 3 bars (not sure where the "wine" tag comes in) and one Turner Prize entry.
Back to your yurt BD. |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, 30 March, 2007 - 11:19 am: | |
As a general rule, I think it is only Friday and Saturday later evenings when the music rises above what one might reasonably call background levels. I persnally cannot stand to be in a pub where one is aware of music being present but it is not properly audible - I find myself straining to make it out, and it becomes far more of a distraction than it would be were it louder. I know that I am not alone in this, and a balance needs to be struck between 'too loud' and 'too quiet' in order to keep everyone happy!
I am aware that there have been occasions where the music has been 'turned up' as the bar has got busier, and then not made its way back down promptly enough as people have left - needless to say, the more bodies in the room and the more people talking, the louder the music has to be in order to maintain the same audibility (if that's even a word). This is quite a tricky thing to manage, especially on busy nights, but we will work on it. We are certainly not aiming to run a nightclub - but then nor are we a Wetherspoons, and we do think that music makes quite a significant contribution to the atmosphere of the bar.
I concur with most of the points made, in that if you cannot talk over the music comfortably then it is too loud. That said, we have quite a good PA system in the main bar, and the music should be able to reach a reasonable level evenly throughout the pub without causing too many problems.
Ultimately the staff need to maintain a good middle-ground on volume levels - as Baggydave points out, if you do find that you are having difficulty talking over the music, it would be far more productive just to let one of the bar staff know and then they can make a judgement. Chances are they have just become used to the volume level from a busier time in the evening and need some fresh ears to help them out!
Best wishes,
James |
Baggydave
Joined 19-05-2004
| | Posted on Monday, 02 April, 2007 - 04:58 pm: | |
Jamie, you are getting the reputation of being the hub of the local community! This got me thinking about the great Western musical “Paint Your Wagon” where the locals decided on what their Western Saloon should have on offer. Taking a similar lead from your engagement with the community, have you any plans to put on ‘dancing girls’? If not perhaps other residents may suggest other pubs that may be suitable.
Perhaps we could have ‘Paint your Wagon’ (or Seven Brides for Seven Brothers, Oklahoma etc) theme nights. Now that would bring the punters in. For our younger readers see www.imdb.com/title/tt0064782/ ,I particularly like the reference to uproarious drinking and carousing. |
Toffeejim
Joined 27-11-2004
| | Posted on Monday, 02 April, 2007 - 05:07 pm: | |
Racy theme BD. But I suppose the Bird in Hand comes to mind as a possible alternative. Unless of course a branch of All Bare One moved to the area. |
Andy
Joined 23-02-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, 03 April, 2007 - 08:33 am: | |
Just go to 'The Commitments' night in the BHT. Oh sorry, that's every night. |
Sherwood
Joined 30-03-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, 03 April, 2007 - 12:06 pm: | |
Or how about saloon girls at The Honor Oak?
Just like the wild west saloons? |
Pat
Joined 12-11-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, 03 April, 2007 - 01:38 pm: | |
I have noticed that most of the bar staff in the HO - male and female - are very attractive, I think dancing girls and boys would keep a lot of the customers happy! |
Tersie
Joined 04-02-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, 05 April, 2007 - 12:54 am: | |
Just got back from a top evening at the 'white' wine tasing session at the HO, with lovely cheese and port afterwards ;-) (My head may be a bit sore in the morn! ;-o) Robin was a great and very informative character and many thanks for Jamie, James and rupert for putting this event on, great for all to meet up and to put some faces to names on here...also tis a great way to promote the community feel of the bar. I really enjoyed meeting ya'll.....till next time! T |
Bigjulie
Joined 09-04-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, 05 April, 2007 - 11:37 pm: | |
Racy theme indeed BD. The Hob would only have to change one letter to suggest provision of the sort of service available in real wild west saloons. |
Toffeejim
Joined 27-11-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, 28 April, 2007 - 11:48 pm: | |
James - any update to report on the beer front? Have you convinced Punch to let you support an exciting micro-brewery or three? |
Robwinton
Joined 07-06-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, 29 April, 2007 - 08:12 am: | |
Considering that Punch has just spent millions buying 50% of one of the biggest national distributors of beers, wines and spirits, and will be looking to recoup their investment, I imagine the opposite. I would guess there will be severe pressure to switch to much more standard offerings. James/Jamie, and news on that front or is it too early? |
Toffeejim
Joined 27-11-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, 29 April, 2007 - 10:56 am: | |
Perhaps - but I understand the recently gastro'd (and Punch-run) Prince Regent in Herne Hill subscribes to the SIBA Direct Delivery Scheme so there is a local precedent. That place was recently written up by the Observer food critic - although this might have been influened by his slight penchant for wrting about places near to his Brixton home! |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Monday, 30 April, 2007 - 01:02 pm: | |
Hi everyone,
I'm afraid there hasn't been any indication of possible changes on the beer front, but I can't honestly say we have too much hope of that happening - it is how Punch truly make their money out of us.
We will bring it up at our next meeting with them, however. There is, apparently, the possibility of being released from tie for certain products but with increased lease costs being the payoff.
No pressure to standardise on other fronts really as yet, although we do already buy our spirits from Matthew Clark so have noted Punch's aquisition with interest. In truth, a condition of our lease is that we are free to buy wines and spirits from whomever we choose, so there is relatively little they can do on those fronts for the next 9 1/2 years!
On a related note, our next wine tasting is scheduled for Wednesday 9th May, and booking is now open on our website at http://www.thehonoroak.com. This month Robin will be looking at 8 Bordeaux reds.
Best wishes,
James |
Coolhandluke
Joined 08-05-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, 09 May, 2007 - 09:00 am: | |
Jamie, I just wanted to say how excellent the Honor Oak is. Not just because its my local but in general its just a fantastic pub. I rave about the food to anyone who will listen. I went in on Bank Holiday Monday and had haddock and my friend had mozzarella salad and it came to £10, and excellent deal: weatherspoons prices for Gordon Ramsey food. The cider, beer and spirits selection is excellent, with real care taken in preparing the cocktails. A young family came in when I was in there and the staff made every effort to make sure they were welcome; giving the young child a book to play with and making sure they had a 'very trendy' high-chair. I also love the pictures on the wall, my personal favourite is the monkey. Well Done all the landlords and the staff on an unpretentious good value, good quality pub. |
Elizabeth25
Joined 04-03-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, 09 May, 2007 - 12:25 pm: | |
We were in the Honor Oak on bank holiday Monday for lunch, with our young son. He did sit in a high chair and he was given a book to read by the waiter. We had a good time. But I just wanted to say, thank you for calling us young. If it was us, it looks like the grey hair isn't as noticable as I thought! |
Coolhandluke
Joined 08-05-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, 09 May, 2007 - 03:09 pm: | |
No problem Elizabeth 25. We were the two people sat in the sofas by the door. I thought the barman who served you and us, was very polite and attentive. In the words of Bob Dylan, it was a good place to 'shelter from the storm'. I'm trying to make it my local, so I can go in and say 'my usual' and they know to get me a pint of Addlestones. Surely that is every person's dream! Nice high chairs I thought too. |
Les
Joined 28-01-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, 19 May, 2007 - 11:21 pm: | |
The last wine tasting (on the 9th May) was excellent, covering Southern French reds. I took my father in law, who loves the area having lived in Bordeaux for a while, and he thought it was terrific too.
I now know the difference between Bandol and Banyul which is quite an achievement for me.
I would recommend the tastings to anyone - even on a school night. |
Baggydave
Joined 19-05-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, 20 May, 2007 - 10:35 pm: | |
Jamie, this truly is the most fantastic pub I have ever been to in my life, how we ever managed without this truly fantastic pub I don't know. Please do excuse those such as Toffee Jim who insist on trying to tell you how to run the place and don't recognise this as a truly fantastic pub.
And well done for putting a thread up on this site so we can all heap our praises on you.
Whilst you are at it there is potentially a truly fantastic pub on Wood Vale, close to where there used to be a brewery, and very convenient for the cemetary. Should Punch Taverns decide to buy it, well they'd actually have to buy all the flats which people had selfishly bought up, this could also be a truly fantastic pub. What a shame that Punch and you were not on the scene when this was closed down a few years ago.
Mischievious? Moi?? |
Elizabeth25
Joined 04-03-2005
| | Posted on Monday, 21 May, 2007 - 12:41 pm: | |
Yes, this forum should only be for people who bitch and moan. Stop being happy and liking SE23 establishments. Go home, eat cold porridge and grumble about pubs long gone. Shame on you. you happy people! |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, 31 May, 2007 - 04:18 pm: | |
Hello everyone!
Hope you are all well. I realise this may be a little redundant to those of you posting here, but I thought I would let you know that we have opened a survey at http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=Y1L%2bRXSbb1bwi7p2IvofrA%3d%3d in a bid to get an idea of how we're doing and to help us plan for the coming months. If you've got the time to fill it in, you'll be entered into a draw to win a bottle of champagne to enjoy at the pub.
Also, our next wine tasting will take place on 13th June. This time it's white wines - old world vs new world. Booking is now open on http://www.thehonoroak.com.
Thanks and best wishes,
James |
Ghis
Joined 02-01-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, 31 May, 2007 - 04:43 pm: | |
I could not find where to book the wine tasting? When you click on wines at the moment you get an empty page on the right of the screen. |
Thomas
Joined 14-03-2007
| | Posted on Friday, 01 June, 2007 - 01:08 pm: | |
There is a ticker at the bottom of the page, which you need to click on to start the booking process. You also need to make your payment via paypal, so you will need to have an account with them set up. James: is there any way of booking without going through paypal? |
Ghis
Joined 02-01-2007
| | Posted on Friday, 01 June, 2007 - 03:15 pm: | |
Cool. Working now. I can see the ticker. |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, 15 June, 2007 - 03:58 pm: | |
In a bid to insert The Honor Oak's fingers into yet another pie, we are pleased to announce comedy every Monday in July...
South East London's famous Happy Mondays comedy club relocates to The Honor Oak for our season of Edinburgh previews. Every Monday we have 2 full shows from Britain's top comics. That's 2 shows for the price of less-than-half! £6/£4
July 2nd
Phil Nichol
If.Comeddies Award Winner for Best Show 2006
Wil Hodgson
Perrier Award Winner for Best Newcomer 2004
July 9th
Richard Herring
of Lee and Herring Fame
Mark Watson
If.Comeddies Award Winner for Spirit of the Fringe 2006
July 16th
Andy Zaltzman
If.Comeddies Award Nominee for Best Show 2006, Melbourne Festival Comedians Award Winner 2007.
Paul Sinha
If.Comeddies Award Nominee for Best Show 2006
July 23rd
Stewart Lee
Officially the 41st Best Stand Up Ever
Tony Law
Melbourne Festival Comedians Award Winner 2005
July 30th
Josie Long
If.Comeddies Award Winner for Best Newcomer 2006
Pappy's Fun Club
Chortle Award Nominee for Best Newcomer 2007
...and cabaret on 5th July - visit http://www.standnotamazed.com/quircus/index.htm for info.
Also, in a final shameless plug, booking is now open on our website for the Don Weller gig on 28 June. We expect to have a full house for this one, so please book early if you want to come.
Thanks, and hope to see you soon,
James |
Baggydave
Joined 19-05-2004
| | Posted on Monday, 18 June, 2007 - 08:59 pm: | |
A word of warning, be careful about mentioning Phil Nichol as you may get youe postings removed as this could offend some sensitive souls |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, 06 July, 2007 - 10:14 am: | |
This week's events at 'YOHO'...
HAPPY MONDAY July 9th
Comedy in the St. Germain Suite
Richard Herring
of Lee and Herring Fame
Mark Watson
If.Comeddies Award Winner for Spirit of the Fringe 2006
Doors open 7.15pm
Admission £6 / £4 NUS
JAZZ July 12
HENRY LOWTHER and JOHN HORLER TRIO
A fine trumpeter and a fine pianist for your pleasure.
Book online at http://www.thehonoroak.com
£3.50 advance / £5 door / £15 with dinner
Come along if anything tickles your fancy!
Best wishes,
James |
Baggydave
Joined 19-05-2004
| | Posted on Friday, 06 July, 2007 - 07:38 pm: | |
Don't let Phil Nichol tickle your fancy Jamie, or if he gets his kit off (as he did in his last Edinburgh show) you tickle his.
If you go to my favourite Redneck pub, the Jolly Woodman in Beckenham, you will see that they feature Morris Dancers in the summer. Now there's a challenge! See: www.ravensbourne.org/Programme.asp
Also: www.tradgames.org.uk/features/pub-games.htm
You may tempt Toffee Jim back who still laments the loss of the bar billiards in the DA |
Robwinton
Joined 07-06-2006
| | Posted on Friday, 06 July, 2007 - 07:49 pm: | |
I am hoping that one of Lewisham's leading lights (of the Morris Dancing scene anyway) will be gracing the sofas of YOHO on Friday 13th. I'll let you know whether he decides to come back with his mates and their bells BD. |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, 06 September, 2007 - 04:09 pm: | |
Hello everyone. Hope you are all well and enjoyed the summer (!).
A little bit of shameless advertising....
Autumn Events
-------------
Thursday 13th September
Honor Oak Acoustic
Free live music in the function room with
Laurel Sills, Matt Hart, Amy Wilkinson
Monday 17th September
Happy Mondays - Comedy
Jo Neary and Tom Wrigglesworth
£6 / £4, pay on the door
Wednesday 19th September
Wine Tasting
Reds : The Winter Warmers
£12, book online at http://www.thehonoroak.com
Thursday 20th September
Honor Oak Acoustic:
Pete Greenwood, Nathan Hinchliffe, Joe Bentley
Thursday 27th September
Honor Oak Acoustic:
Nila Raja, David Simon, Jonny Hoyle
Wednesday 10th October
Wine Tasting
Whites: Off The Beaten Track
£12, book online
Monday 15th October
Flavours of Tuscany
An evening of preparing and eating real Italian food hosted by Rupert's brother and his Italian wife!
£15, book online
Monday 22nd October
Happy Mondays Comedy Club
Ivan Brackenbury and Ginger and Black
£6 / £4, pay on the door
More to follow... more info and booking at http://www.thehonoroak.com, or email us at hello@thehonoroak.com!
Cheers,
James |
Baggydave
Joined 19-05-2004
| | Posted on Friday, 07 September, 2007 - 07:54 pm: | |
Where is the traditional pub games and Morris dancing Jamie - and the 'nerdy' games as well
Do you not learn anything from his Baggyness? |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, 07 September, 2007 - 08:04 pm: | |
We did offer the back room for the nerdy games.... |
Jamie
Joined 31-10-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, 10 October, 2007 - 12:19 pm: | |
Hi everyone,
I've just finalised and sent to print our events listings until Christmas, and we were thinking that now might be a good time to ask people what they'd like from us come the New Year.
As many of you know, we've had a go at music, wine tasting, comedy and even one cabaret night. Some of them have been successful, others less so - but in truth many of the ones that have worked have been suggested or contributed to by our 'regulars' and people who use this site.
So - over to you. In the coming months we've got some more comedy and wine tasting, acoustic nights and an 'all-new' disco on the last Friday of the month. What do you want next year? More of the same, or something different?
Even Morris Dancing will be considered if enough people vote for it.
James |
Roz
Joined 17-03-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, 10 October, 2007 - 01:15 pm: | |
How about a traditional Scottish/Irish ceilidh? It might be novel enough to attract quite a few people. St Patricks night in March?
Burns Night is another one in January when its cold and dark and not a lot going on - haggis and poetry etc- all can be done with variations on the same theme. |
Michael
Joined 04-03-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, 10 October, 2007 - 01:34 pm: | |
St Patricks night is really for the Blythe Hill Tavern but I like the idea of a Burns Night. I have some vague memories from Burns Nights in Edinburgh. |
Bigjulie
Joined 09-04-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, 10 October, 2007 - 10:43 pm: | |
I miss the Jazz. It was top quality. Shame the beer never reached the same heights but you can't have everything... |
Nevermodern
Joined 09-02-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, 11 October, 2007 - 07:54 pm: | |
Alternative cabaret would be fun - like a straight RVT :) |
Baggydave
Joined 19-05-2004
| | Posted on Friday, 12 October, 2007 - 01:56 pm: | |
Jamie - how do you decide how much to charge for your beer (when you have the draught stuff on)? Went to the Dolphin for the first time last night and was shocked to pay three quid for a pint. I appreciate there are investments and financial returns when you refurb a pub, but I spend considerably less at the selected pubs I use in central London. Well at least it was served decently, unlike the Forest Hill Tavern, at £2.85 for undrinkable Pride, and zero interest when you complain.
Of course some pub chains compete on cut-throat prices, but my views on them are already well articulated on my own thread next door.
sorry for turning this thread into a one-one chat (yeah, as if I am really bothered)
And I did tell the bar staff last night that they were expensive. |
